Can 5/16 needle be used for shallow IM (deltoid)?

[Willyt]

My intention is not to rehash the endless IM versus Subq debate around here. I am merely curious whether a shorter 5/16" needle can be used in deltoid for shallow IM.

Most including myself would typically use a minimum of 1/2" for shallow IM. However, I find that 1/2" occasional gives a painful zinger, which is mainly why I prefer belly subq for dailies (even though I subjectively feel better on IM). Hence the question about 5/16".

If shorter 5/16 needle fails to pierce the muscle in delt, where is the T deposited? It appears that worst case scenario is the T would end up in subcutaneous layer. Or is the subq layer too thin in delt especially for lean guys? Could you end up with an intradermal injection? If so, what does that mean?

For the record, I have tried 5/16 in delts on number of occasions and felt good, but the placebo effect runs strong in me. Perhaps I am just fooling myself.

 

[Blackhawk]

If you contract your deltoid muscle so it is firm, how much skin/subQ tissue can you pinch on top of the muscle. I am pretty darn lean, and for me there seems to be enough that 5/16" seems borderline. I have about 1/2 inch between my fingertips, so double the thickness over the muscle. That said, with how much the syringe tip will compress into that tissue, I think 5/16" would indeed just get me into the muscle.

You already have 5/16" needles? If I were you I would not hesitate to try. Indeed, if the injection is just shy of the muscle it is SubQ anyway.

 

[Willyt]

If you contract your deltoid muscle so it is firm, how much skin/subQ tissue can you pinch on top of the muscle. I am pretty darn lean, and for me there seems to be enough that 5/16" seems borderline. I have about 1/2 inch between my fingertips, so double the thickness over the muscle. That said, with how much the syringe tip will compress into that tissue, I think 5/16" would indeed just get me into the muscle.

You already have 5/16" needles? If I were you I would not hesitate to try. Indeed, if the injection is just shy of the muscle it is SubQ anyway.

Same here. Not much subq tissue to pinch. When flexing deltoid, it feels like thin layer of skin over the muscle so it does seem possible hit the IM.

As you say, worst case is subq injection instead of IM. I will keep experimenting for couple of weeks with the 5/16 into delt and report back.

I think other traditional IM sites like outer quad would could work also, but doubt that VG is possible because there seems to be thicker skin/subq layer there.

 

[Systemlord]

If you’re lean, I think 5/16 should be long enough for shallow IM. If you hit muscle and has done both SQ and IM, you’ll know you’re hitting muscle or not.

There’s more resistance when hitting muscle vs the SQ layer.

 

[MarkLA]

Agree with all.. I'm lean and it's marginal. I bought a bunch of 5/16" needles by accident. Sometimes it seems like a little of the oil leaks out unless I get it perfect. Normally I use the .5" syringe and don't have any problems.

 

[Willyt]

Agree with all.. I'm lean and it's marginal. I bought a bunch of 5/16" needles by accident. Sometimes it seems like a little of the oil leaks out unless I get it perfect. Normally I use the .5" syringe and don't have any problems.

Interesting you say that because I've had couple drops of blood in when experimenting with 5/16 in delts the last several days, making me wonder how much T was lost.

I am nearing conclusion that the 1/2" needles are definitely the way to go for shallow IM. Oh well, that is what experimenting is for!

 

[DaveK22]

I just did my first shallow IM in delt with my 30G 5/16". Very easy & zero pip. I've always been sub-q in abs but wanted to change it up. TBH I have no idea if it made it to muscle but I have very little skin to pinch and I went in at 90 degrees. I kinda pushed a bit while injecting so the needle tip made a small concave indent.

I have no interest in going to a larger needle as I don't mind the little extra time it takes to load syringes. I use the same 30G 5/16" for my HCG so there is the convenience thing too.

Not sure if I'll notice any difference, or whether a placebo effect will happen, but for me it's just another "try and see" thing.

 

[McBeavy]

My outer thigh muscle, the rectus femoras, are very lean and that's where I inject my T cyp, using a 29g 5/16". I know it's shallow IM but it's definitely hitting muscle. I alternate sides and area each injection, which is 40mg Monday and Thursday. Warming the vial under hot water helps it flow better, too.

I can't believe I used to inject with 22g 1.5" in the ventrogluteal area. Those were like whale harpoons, lol. This board quickly taught me a much smaller and less painful needle size worked just fine.

 

[Painjunky]

You could always give it a go around lab time and remove any questions on placebo.
The numbers will tell you straight up.