Bad News For Egg Lovers

#2
This is almost certainly a totally bogus study and more a sign of how far "science" has fallen than anything else. It's observational and without knowing what the adjustment calculation were it is completely irrelevant. If they weren't published, then it's not science since it would not be repeatable. Eating fat in the context of a high-carb metabolism could well be a problem, but so could any form of high-carb metabolism, at least for most people.
 

DragonBits

Active Member
#3
This is almost certainly a totally bogus study and more a sign of how far "science" has fallen than anything else. It's observational and without knowing what the adjustment calculation were it is completely irrelevant. If they weren't published, then it's not science since it would not be repeatable. Eating fat in the context of a high-carb metabolism could well be a problem, but so could any form of high-carb metabolism, at least for most people.
I wouldn't say it's bogus, it is published in Jama.

Conclusions and Relevance Among US adults, higher consumption of dietary cholesterol or eggs was significantly associated with higher risk of incident CVD and all-cause mortality in a dose-response manner. These results should be considered in the development of dietary guidelines and updates.

Dietary Cholesterol or Egg Consumption With Incident CVD and Mortality

A little weird and confusing, eggs are either good or bad or good or bad depending on the year and what study you read.

Dietary cholesterol is either not very important or critical, your body makes cholesterol and makes more or less depending on how much dietary cholesterol you consume. ... Or maybe it doesn't work that way.

It's clear to me.
 
#4
These association/observational studies are voodoo science. I wish they would just stop. These are not experiments. The risk ratio are so low that in other sciences they would be dismissed. The smoking risk/ratio was 10x or more, this is 1.18.

Not only that but these are food questionnaires, which are notoriously inaccurate and they omit so much. Studies of food questionnaires have found that people self-report eating habits that would not even sustain an adult.

If they say cholesterol is the issue, then we can play the same game.

"Low cholesterol is associated with mortality from stroke, heart disease, and cancer: the Jichi Medical School Cohort Study." - Low cholesterol is associated with mortality from stroke, heart disease, and cancer: the Jichi Medical School Cohort Study. - PubMed - NCBI

So which is it? Is the cholesterol killing or is low cholesterol going to kill us?
 
#5
I agree with you RoneTone. I had the same thoughts - observational study with self-reporting? Nah. Furthermore, how can you narrow down to one specific food item and draw conclusions? Why not correlate with the number of Hostess Twinkies consumed instead?

What about the genetics, weight, age, other items of the diet, exercise, etc? How did they cook the eggs? Free range eggs?
 
#8
I recently switched over to egg whites after having some unsubstantiated high Cholesterol tests, unsubstantiated because I can't see it in my diet but made that switch as I do eat 2 eggs 4-6 days per week. Hardly enough to support those Cholesterol numbers I had.

But too next month you'll get a "study" of all the ailments from eating whites only. Seems how this goes.
 
#9
I arrive at the conclusion that its ok to eat eggs but not too many.
Only if the cited study the conclusion is based on is a rigorous and properly designed clinical trial with robust statistical significance. This study is nothing of the kind. Not even close.

These association/observational studies are voodoo science. I wish they would just stop. These are not experiments. The risk ratio are so low that in other sciences they would be dismissed. The smoking risk/ratio was 10x or more, this is 1.18.
You're correct, although actually closer to 20x. Studies with hazard ratios this low are simply not even indicative of any likely association, much less causation (remember, this is an observational study, so it can't actually show causation, just association at best).

Not only that but these are food questionnaires, which are notoriously inaccurate and they omit so much. Studies of food questionnaires have found that people self-report eating habits that would not even sustain an adult.
Absolutely right. Food questionnaires, especially those compiled from recollection (as opposed to a daily diary filled out with each meal) are quite useless. Further confounding is the compliance effect. Those who seek to maintain what they are told are healthy habits (as when they are told that eating lots of eggs is unhealthy, still the advice most commonly heard) generally try to maintain other healthy behaviors. Data from a large statin trial when examined for compliance to the regimen revealed that five-year mortality in compliant placebo recipients was lower than in non-compliant recipients of the drug. I.e., the mere fact of being health-conscious (compliant with the (perceived) medication regimen) had a stronger effect on mortality in some sense than the drug itself!

The value of almost all observational studies is basically nil, except as a starting point for formulating a hypothesis that can be tested in a RCT (even better if it's double-blind and placebo-controlled, if that's possible). And the HR should be well above two (preferably closer to five) to justify the RCT.
 
#11
Big egg is rushing to the defense. :)

The biggest risk factor of all is old age, so I avoiding this and my next vacation will be on de Nile River.
 
#12
Cholesterol repairs arteries, damaged by oxidative stress, in the same way that you would put a patch on (except inside, in this case) an inner tube. Repetitive patching causes arterial restriction, obviously.

Again, we are all victims of "Science" failing to prove cause and effect. (Have a persistent headache? Just keep swallowing the pain killers!)

A much better course of action would be to stop (never start?) eating the packaged foods that cause oxidative stress. Too late for most of us, not so for our (grand)children.

I have an outrageously "high" LDL. I DON'T CARE! According to the Framingham calculator, I am low risk of CVA and CVH concerns for my age. LDL is not even measured in lipid profile panels, its ESTIMATED using the Friedewald equation. More important is HDL (mine is similarly outrageously "high") and triglyceride measurement. Read (any of) Jimmy Moore's books, especially Keto clarity. Namaste.
 
#13
These association/observational studies are voodoo science. I wish they would just stop. These are not experiments. The risk ratio are so low that in other sciences they would be dismissed. The smoking risk/ratio was 10x or more, this is 1.18.

Not only that but these are food questionnaires, which are notoriously inaccurate and they omit so much. Studies of food questionnaires have found that people self-report eating habits that would not even sustain an adult.

If they say cholesterol is the issue, then we can play the same game.

"Low cholesterol is associated with mortality from stroke, heart disease, and cancer: the Jichi Medical School Cohort Study." - Low cholesterol is associated with mortality from stroke, heart disease, and cancer: the Jichi Medical School Cohort Study. - PubMed - NCBI

So which is it? Is the cholesterol killing or is low cholesterol going to kill us?
EXACTLY, guys the only issue with the yolk is the high content of Arachidonic Acid, that drives inflammation, that's it. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't eat eggs. The cholesterol and eggs story is a nonsense, they can keep doing studies over and over and it will be still a nonsense. Cholesterol from eggs is also poorly absorbed, at much less degree if you have oatmeal in the same meal.

I used to have 3 eggs per day, my AA/EPA ratio come back with slightly higher AA compare to EPA, I now do one egg per day and 3/4 cup of eggwhites, although I thought I felt digesting better the 3 whole eggs,
 
#14
I think people who worry about this should get a calcium heart scan.

HDL doesn't always work as "good" cholesterol, calculated LDL is a reasonable estimate as long as you don't have extremely high triglycerides.

Lipid profiles only provide limited information, but a calcium heart scan measures calcium deposits. The amount of detected calcium provides a measure of how much plaque has accumulated.

You can get a baseline measurement and in a year or more, measure again and see if plague accumulates or stays steady. Sometimes it even goes down.

Around Chicago it is advertised for $50.
 
#16
One 80mg child aspirin per day ameliorates the deleterious effect of arachidonic acid (which btw is in any animal meat/egg product). Also has other benefits for seniors at minimal cost. Namaste.
for sure, although, in my opinion a better approach is taking Omega3 FA from Fish and Fish oil at therapeutic dosages, at the end what matters is AA/EPA ratio, I would leave the use aspirin for other conditions
 
#18
ABSTRACT
It is time to shift the arachidonic acid (ARA) paradigm from a harm-generating molecule to its status of polyunsaturated fatty acid essential for normal health. ARA is an integral constituent of biological cell membrane, conferring it with fluidity and flexibility, so necessary for the function of all cells, especially in nervous system, skeletal muscle, and immune system. Arachidonic acid is obtained from food or by desaturation and chain elongation of the plant-rich essential fatty acid, linoleic acid. Free ARA modulates the function of ion channels, several receptors and enzymes, via activation as well as inhibition. That explains its fundamental role in the proper function of the brain and muscles and its protective potential against Schistosoma mansoni and S. haematobium infection and tumor initiation, development, and metastasis. Arachidonic acid in cell membranes undergoes reacylation/deacylation cycles, which keep the concentration of free ARA in cells at a very low level and limit ARA availability to oxidation. Metabolites derived from ARA oxidation do not initiate but contribute to inflammation and most importantly lead to the generation of mediators responsible for resolving inflammation and wound healing. Endocannabinoids are oxidation-independent ARA derivatives, critically important for brain reward signaling, motivational processes, emotion, stress responses, pain, and energy balance. Free ARA and metabolites promote and modulate type 2 immune responses, which are critically important in resistance to parasites and allergens insult, directly via action on eosinophils, basophils, and mast cells and indirectly by binding to specific receptors on innate lymphoid cells. In conclusion, the present review advocates the innumerable ARA roles and considerable importance for normal health.










Conclusions
In conclusion, it is recommended to monitor and supplement serum ARA levels in pregnant women, infants, children and the elderly in poor rural settings as dietary ARA is safe, being a poor substrate for beta-oxidation and is critically essential for the development and optimal performance of the nervous system, especially the brain and cognitive functions, the skeletal muscle and immune systems. Additionally, ARA promotes and regulates type 2 immune responses against intestinal and blood flukes and may well represent an invaluable endoschistsomicide and endotumoricide.
 

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