Advice on TRT Dosing and managing some side effects

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Test-Joe

New Member
Hi - I am looking for advice to help dial-in TRT medications as well as a couple of current side effects. By way of background I am 61 yo active white male diagnosed with low T when I was 53. Classic presentation during late ages 45-53 despite active lifestyle (weight training 3-4 week; spin class 2-3 week) I was diagnosed with metabolic syndrome. My HBA1C hovered around 5.8, hypertension, and high cholesterol. I was also experiencing lower libido and weaker erections. My primary care finally ran T levels and my Total T was 361 ng/dl, Free T was 28 pg/mL, and SHBG was 52. All Thyroid functions were within normal limits. Initially used Axiron for first year and a half and then on advice of primary care provider switch to pellets. Due to higher SHBG I was getting 12 pellets very 16 weeks. Labs just prior to next implants were lower than when initially diagnosed. I also did not like the roller coaster of emotions when on pellets plus I experienced significant testicular atrophy, they were the size of grapes, which I struggled with. I shifted to T injections in Nov 2017 and have generally been pleased and saw restoration of testicular size with 1,500 U of HGH per week.

Since starting injection therapy my protocol has been fairly consistent with twice weekly injection every 3.5 days with weekly dose of 140 mg T-Cyp, 1,500 U of HCG and 0.15 AI twice a week. In December 2019, I was on the same protocol except dosing except I shifted to EOD injections and decreased T-Cyp to 100 mg and HCG to 1,200 week and dropped AI. In addition to TRT medications, I take 5 mg Cialis daily for ED management.

In June of this year, facing higher DHT levels (951.8 pg/mL Normal: 102-719) and increasing Estradiol Ultra Sensitive (48 pg/mL Normal: 11-80) and not wanting to go back on AI, TRT provider recommended adding Nandrolone to my protocol. In June my Total T (LC-MS) was 998.5 ng/dL (278 points above Normal limit) Free was 282.8 pg/mL (38 points above normal limits), SHBG was 35. I ultimately decided to go on Nandrolone at weekly dose of 70 mg, decreased T-Cyp to 70 mg weekly, and increased HCG back to 1,500 U due to some testicular atrophy at 1,200 U dosage.

In July 2020 I contracted COVID-19 and was hospitalized to receive Remdesivir, decadron, and convalescent plasma. I was off all TRT medications while in the hospital. In September 2020, I unexpectedly retired when employer offered early retirement option. Since retiring, I have been enjoying increased time for daily workouts, learning crossfit workouts, and indoor cycling. I have seen improvements in total body weight and % body fat. I've dropped 15 pounds down to 182 and % body fat is at 13.9%.

My December 2020 labs highlight the following results:

Total T = 1,378 ng/dL (Normal 300-720)
Free T = 310 pg/mL (Normal 47 - 244)
Bioavailable T = 810 ng/dL (Normal 131 - 682)
% Free = 2.3% (Normal 1.6 - 2.9%)
SHBG = 38 nmol/L (Normal 11 - 80)
Estradiol High Sensitivity = 21.1 ng/mL (Normal 10 - 42)
TSH = 1.329 mIU/L (Normal 0.270 - 4.2)
DHEA = 322 ng/dL (Normal 42 - 290) (I take 25 mg per day 5 days a week)

Of particular concern to Primary Care Provider my Creatinine levels climbed 0.3 points to 1.4 mg/bl (Normal 0.6-1.2) and my GFR dropped to 54ml/min (Normal > 60). My blood pressure has been running in the 140/90 range despite 20 mg of ramipril daily. Of note, I use L-Arginine and L-Citrulline as NO booster as a pre-workout. My usage of these supplements has increased with increased workouts.

Based on concerns from PCP regarding T levels, higher BP, and potential lower renal functioning based on creatinine and GFR levels, I made the following adjustments to medication protocol with plans to retest in March. Dropped T-Cyp and Nandrolone to weekly does of 50 mg each and decreased use of NO supplements.

I have never had that "dial-in" feeling that many of this forum described. Any thoughts would be helpful.
 
Defy Medical TRT clinic doctor

JA Battle

Well-Known Member
I would drop the nandrolone entirely

the whole reason you used it at first because of elevated dht and estradiol. Lowering the dose likely takes care of those issues although higher dht I don’t feel is a problem.

your estradiol level is too low for such a high androgen load.

Estradiol is neuroprotective, bone protective, cardiovascular protection. It’s also important for dopamine and libido among other things.

I would inject 5 mg of enathate daily
I would inject 3 mg of propionate daily
I would accept having slightly smaller than normal testes and inject 150iu hcg daily

if all that sounds too crazy (I’m athletic and 28yo and that’s roughly my protocol)

try injecting
60mg test cyp split eod
20mg nandrolone split eod
Keep hcg where you want it
 

Test-Joe

New Member
Thanks! Agree on the point nandrolone with lower T dose. Forget to mention I am hip replacement patient when I was 26 and revised twice over the years. Also have torn meniscus. I like the protective effect of the nandrolone. Since starting rare for that to bother me.
 

gerardo

Member
Hi - I am looking for advice to help dial-in TRT medications as well as a couple of current side effects. By way of background I am 61 yo active white male diagnosed with low T when I was 53. Classic presentation during late ages 45-53 despite active lifestyle (weight training 3-4 week; spin class 2-3 week) I was diagnosed with metabolic syndrome. My HBA1C hovered around 5.8, hypertension, and high cholesterol. I was also experiencing lower libido and weaker erections. My primary care finally ran T levels and my Total T was 361 ng/dl, Free T was 28 pg/mL, and SHBG was 52. All Thyroid functions were within normal limits. Initially used Axiron for first year and a half and then on advice of primary care provider switch to pellets. Due to higher SHBG I was getting 12 pellets very 16 weeks. Labs just prior to next implants were lower than when initially diagnosed. I also did not like the roller coaster of emotions when on pellets plus I experienced significant testicular atrophy, they were the size of grapes, which I struggled with. I shifted to T injections in Nov 2017 and have generally been pleased and saw restoration of testicular size with 1,500 U of HGH per week.

Since starting injection therapy my protocol has been fairly consistent with twice weekly injection every 3.5 days with weekly dose of 140 mg T-Cyp, 1,500 U of HCG and 0.15 AI twice a week. In December 2019, I was on the same protocol except dosing except I shifted to EOD injections and decreased T-Cyp to 100 mg and HCG to 1,200 week and dropped AI. In addition to TRT medications, I take 5 mg Cialis daily for ED management.

In June of this year, facing higher DHT levels (951.8 pg/mL Normal: 102-719) and increasing Estradiol Ultra Sensitive (48 pg/mL Normal: 11-80) and not wanting to go back on AI, TRT provider recommended adding Nandrolone to my protocol. In June my Total T (LC-MS) was 998.5 ng/dL (278 points above Normal limit) Free was 282.8 pg/mL (38 points above normal limits), SHBG was 35. I ultimately decided to go on Nandrolone at weekly dose of 70 mg, decreased T-Cyp to 70 mg weekly, and increased HCG back to 1,500 U due to some testicular atrophy at 1,200 U dosage.

In July 2020 I contracted COVID-19 and was hospitalized to receive Remdesivir, decadron, and convalescent plasma. I was off all TRT medications while in the hospital. In September 2020, I unexpectedly retired when employer offered early retirement option. Since retiring, I have been enjoying increased time for daily workouts, learning crossfit workouts, and indoor cycling. I have seen improvements in total body weight and % body fat. I've dropped 15 pounds down to 182 and % body fat is at 13.9%.

My December 2020 labs highlight the following results:

Total T = 1,378 ng/dL (Normal 300-720)
Free T = 310 pg/mL (Normal 47 - 244)
Bioavailable T = 810 ng/dL (Normal 131 - 682)
% Free = 2.3% (Normal 1.6 - 2.9%)
SHBG = 38 nmol/L (Normal 11 - 80)
Estradiol High Sensitivity = 21.1 ng/mL (Normal 10 - 42)
TSH = 1.329 mIU/L (Normal 0.270 - 4.2)
DHEA = 322 ng/dL (Normal 42 - 290) (I take 25 mg per day 5 days a week)

Of particular concern to Primary Care Provider my Creatinine levels climbed 0.3 points to 1.4 mg/bl (Normal 0.6-1.2) and my GFR dropped to 54ml/min (Normal > 60). My blood pressure has been running in the 140/90 range despite 20 mg of ramipril daily. Of note, I use L-Arginine and L-Citrulline as NO booster as a pre-workout. My usage of these supplements has increased with increased workouts.

Based on concerns from PCP regarding T levels, higher BP, and potential lower renal functioning based on creatinine and GFR levels, I made the following adjustments to medication protocol with plans to retest in March. Dropped T-Cyp and Nandrolone to weekly does of 50 mg each and decreased use of NO supplements.

I have never had that "dial-in" feeling that many of this forum described. Any thoughts would be helpful.
About Hcg did you get to test 250 wm twice a week?
 

gerardo

Member
I would drop the nandrolone entirely

the whole reason you used it at first because of elevated dht and estradiol. Lowering the dose likely takes care of those issues although higher dht I don’t feel is a problem.

your estradiol level is too low for such a high androgen load.

Estradiol is neuroprotective, bone protective, cardiovascular protection. It’s also important for dopamine and libido among other things.

I would inject 5 mg of enathate daily
I would inject 3 mg of propionate daily
I would accept having slightly smaller than normal testes and inject 150iu hcg daily

if all that sounds too crazy (I’m athletic and 28yo and that’s roughly my protocol)

try injecting
60mg test cyp split eod
20mg nandrolone split eod
Keep hcg where you want it
This union of enanthate and cypionate seems interesting. Did you use Hcg 3x a week?
 

JA Battle

Well-Known Member
I would say that it will do a lot better job at raising e2 and create a rollercoaster surge of weekly variation which i personally am
Not interested in however for some it may be an option. I’m also a primary hypogonadism patient so effects of hcg on gonadal hormone output are small. I would benefit from more e2 but I’d rather supplement that directly moving forward. My goal for hcg use is to just keep my testes somewhat normal and possibly benefit from a little upstream hormone creation. They are still only about half size. Fortunately they started out before trt on the larger side.
 

Abuser200

Member
I would drop the nandrolone entirely

the whole reason you used it at first because of elevated dht and estradiol. Lowering the dose likely takes care of those issues although higher dht I don’t feel is a problem.

your estradiol level is too low for such a high androgen load.

Estradiol is neuroprotective, bone protective, cardiovascular protection. It’s also important for dopamine and libido among other things.

I would inject 5 mg of enathate daily
I would inject 3 mg of propionate daily
I would accept having slightly smaller than normal testes and inject 150iu hcg daily

if all that sounds too crazy (I’m athletic and 28yo and that’s roughly my protocol)

try injecting
60mg test cyp split eod
20mg nandrolone split eod
Keep hcg where you want it
So you’re taking a total of 8mg testosterone injected daily? What numbers do you achieve with this protocol if i may ask? And how do you feel?
 

Test-Joe

New Member
So you’re taking a total of 8mg testosterone injected daily? What numbers do you achieve with this protocol if i may ask? And how do you feel?
I am injecting 14 mg of T-Cyp EOD plus I have the benefit of HCG impact and the Nandrolone. I have been doing this reduced dosage now for about three years. So far, I don’t notice major changes, perhaps a little more fatigue after workout and not as quick recovery. Libido and erections are fine. Mood is less anxious.

I lowered my dose so drastically because because PCP was so concerned about my blood pressure and lower renal function. At this point I think I would rather err on the side of lower dose for 3 months, retest and see where my levels are abs then adjust up as needed.
 
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