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Expert Interviews
Adversity, Breakthrough and a Hero’s Battle with Death -Jay Campbell Interviews Nelson Vergel
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<blockquote data-quote="Nelson Vergel" data-source="post: 82304" data-attributes="member: 3"><p>PART 3</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Thank you. I'm on a research drug that is a monoclonal antibody. It's that super-duper drug administered by IV called ibalizumab that I was lucky to get when I joined a study 5 years ago. Finally, after 27 years now I finally have no detectable HIV in my blood and it has given me more time to help others. Unfortunately, as my immune system was getting better, I got diagnosed with lymphoma in 2014 but eventually I also kicked that one in the ass. Anyways, I was going to get to a point here. It's very important to not let circumstances take you away from that. We have days where we must pay our bills, the kids are sick or things are just piling up. There is no time for you to think about other people, I get it. I even tell people, just try once. Try going to volunteer to any ... I tell people, people say, “Well, I don't know what to get involved with.” I tell people, “Get involved with things that piss you off. Whatever you're angry about, things that are wrong- “</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: That's great advice.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: They were, “I hate the fact that this is happening.” Well, get involved with whatever cause or whatever non-profit is working on that issue because every issue has obviously ... if there is not, create your own damn group.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Right, which obviously you and I have done. That's great advice, I'm like you. The one thing I will say that I really, consciously put into place, obviously talking to you and you pushed me to read the Tolle books more than probably anybody. It's like you said, the fear. When you go to bed at night, you shouldn't be worried about something that's coming tomorrow. As you know, we could die in our sleep, okay? Tomorrow is not a guarantee, yesterday is gone.</p><p> Focusing on yesterday and memories of things that you worry about or tomorrow or a future that may not come. I always think back to myself, I think about ... when I was just like you, the oldest of nine kids, type A, analytical maniac. Just running around, everything has got to be organized, it's got to be done like this, this, this, this. It's like I think about how much time of my life I've wasted because all those things that you focused on, how many of them even materialized? Maybe 1%. It's incredible how people live in the ego mind. We're just literally living in things that we have no earthly idea are even going to happen to us.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: 90% of the things that we worry about don't ever happen.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Literally don't happen. It's like once I started, and this is all really for me, I will be the first to admit it, it's all been in the last six months. I have met my spiritual enlightenment or my increase in consciousness has truly ... I've been reading this stuff for a long time, it just didn't resonate and it finally resonated. It's amazing what's happening to me in my life and that's not the topic of this podcast but the really is that it's when you stop living in fear like you said. You stop the pain body, you get rid of that stuff and you don't let it preoccupy your soul realistically or your existence, everything changes.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah, and I tell people and people always say, “Well, that's new agey stuff.” I tend to be very analytical, if you read my writings and even my lectures, people say, “Well, Nelson, you never really talk about the mind-body connection. You're so conscious about data and blah, blah, blah, you never- “</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Right, you're an engineer.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: “Why are you avoiding that topic even though we know that you have a lot of mind body techniques?” You know, I grew up, there's this part of me that maybe I'm afraid to be labeled as wishy-washy, new agey, blah, blah, blah, and I don't talk about it but like you are the one, you have been the one that says, “Nelson, you need to get over that, you need to speak about that part because not enough people are talking about it.” I'm not trying to sell a book on spirituality, so it's not like-</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Well, let me just stop you because I personally believe from my readings and again, you're 12 years older than me and more well-read than me, you are my mentor, I admit that. Dude, you are who you are and have survived because you have amazing presence, awareness and spiritual energy. Now, I know you're not religious and we're not talking about any of that but all of that is your channeling of your presence. Again, you can define it anyway you want so you are this man, this powerful charismatic figure because you have been able to channel all that. When you were at your deathbed, physically exhausted, your viral load was where it was, you had no real medications to do anything for you, dude, you got through it because of who you are as a human being.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Thank you.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: I have no doubt about that and again, I'm not some guru in the Himalayas. I want to be one of those guys someday but realistically like that's truly what has gotten you to your point and you should not be ashamed because you are a brilliant data intellectual, chemical engineer dork. I know you are that guy deep down but you do have massive spiritual power that you ... again, I'm not religious like you but the reality is that does drive you and that energy is everyone. You walk into a room ... I remember Monica sitting down with you and when we just left you entering your car, Monica just looked over at me and she was like, “Jay, that guy is amazing.”</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Thank you. You guys are so sweet. Love her!</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: She just had energy in her body and Monica is already very intuitive, you know that.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah, she's highly evolved.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: You touched her, your energy touched her energy and she was just like, “That is an amazing man who's overcome so much in life. You have got to build the most amazing relationship with him.” That's obviously what I've tried to do and I believe it's happening. I don't give a shit, I know people ... you are a little older than me and your generation is like, “That new age bullshit,” but dude, there's so much to this man.</p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah. I need to get out of the closet on that one.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Yeah, you absolutely do. Listen man, every single, successful person that I have met in my life, like I was telling you, Josh Smith who's an animal, his people literally meditate for 60 minutes a day.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah, that's a-</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: It's not a coincidence. There is a spiritual part of all of us, however we define it, that ... you define it how you want to define it. It's going deep within as Tolle says, and being present.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah. I give people practical advice in that, my friends, I'm very good coach. I can say I've saved a few relationships, most of them straight. Most of them in which a woman has cheated on a man and I've taught people how to forgive. That's really a lot of us make mistakes, we pay the price by being our worst critics. I've made mistakes, I've had that problem, I'm a man of the world. To remember that when somebody hurts because they made a mistake, they are the worst critics and they don't need any more of that on their life. I also remind people that you can have an ego voice every second of your life-</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: You can't escape it.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: That voice is always trying to tell you that you're not worthy, that you don't deserve the love of your wife or your girlfriend or boyfriend, that you really are not good looking, you are not smart enough, people are smarter than you or whatever. You may be delusional in which you think the opposite, the complete opposite, you're better than everybody, that's opposite way. Agreeing with that voice leads nowhere.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: You're not enough, you're not enough.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: I tell people, “You do not get cured from that.” The only thing that you get cured of, if you really develop the skills, you say, “No, that's not me. No, you're not going to get me... No. I know what you're trying to do.” It's almost like you see it a separate entity that is not you, that is not you and wants to destroy your present.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: It's the ego, it's like you said, it's the ego.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: As soon as you are aware, that's all you must ... I tell people, “You don't have to do much more that being aware that voice is not you.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Right.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: You don't even have to read that much stuff. If you just keep awake, every time that voice comes up, says, “I know who you are. I know that you're trying to bring me down. You are not me “</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: There's an amazing quote in this book Nelson about the stillness of the mind. That's exactly what you're saying. When you are aware of something else talking-</p><p>Nelson Vergel: You dismantle that ego-voice that wants you to be unconscious.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: It's gone.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: You dismantle it, you become aware... that's what happens. Most of us embrace that voice and it's the voice that takes over. People, say, “Well, you shouldn't be hearing two voices, you're not a schizophrenic,” and I say “No, I'm not schizophrenic. We all have two voices, we have the voice that is trying to keep us down- “</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: 100%</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: And the voice that is trying to give us hope. The one that is trying to bring us down, as soon as you're aware, not like, “Okay, I'm going to shut you up.” You're not going to shut that voice up ever but you're going to dismantle that voice by saying, “You are not going to rule me, no. Tomorrow is going to be better. Yes, I'm having a shitty day but this is going to be over, this too will pass.” That's the only difference right now between me and 10 years ago, that I can tell myself, “Okay, you ...” I was diagnosed with cancer three years ago while I was getting better with my viral load and that was, “Oh my God, why me once again? No.”</p><p>Jay Campbell: You and I were talking about, it's like the two statements I take from Tolle, which I'll remember forever, is the two statements, no matter what it is, good or bad in your life; is that so, and this too shall pass, right?</p><p>Nelson Vergel: This too shall pass. Maybe I'll learn something around this, that's what I say. Maybe I'll be able to write a book about this, like with cancer was, “Maybe I'll just need to learn about cancer, you know.” It wasn't that bad, I had chemo in a bag. I walked around, I went to the grocery store, I went to the gym with my chemo bag. Yeah, I lost my hair and I have a big head so that was kind of freaky but I was always testosterone too, moderate doses, to prevent cancer related wasting. For me, I'm not afraid of cancer anymore, it's almost like I will deal with it if it happens again. “Be optimistic, be realistic, be hopeful but get ready for the worst and accept the worst.” Accept that, just accept it and say, “Okay, what if and what happens? I'm still me, I'm still going to be able to ...” I accept the worst every time something and I also have expect the best. I said, “No, I'm going to fight cancer, I'm going to get over cancer like I did with HIV&#8230;May be I will learn something new about acceptance”.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Yes, absolutely, it's all perspective.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah, and the fact that a voice is going to tell me, “Well, this cancer is going to kill you. Okay, you survived a lot but this is going to kill you.”</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: The key is what you said there before, you said it never goes away.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Never goes away.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: That's what you must be accepting of, Monica always says acceptance. It really is the idea that you can never defeat the enemy, the enemy is always there but can you ... Like you said, disempower the enemy by not listening to it.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Dismantling it, yeah, by just saying, “I know what you're trying to do and I know that- “</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Right. We've got 10 minutes here and I want to talk because we haven't talked ... this has been an amazing podcast.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: You got into this, this is your-</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: No, I would go way deeper with you but I do want to talk about you, I do want to talk about ExcelMale, I want to talk about your book. I know you're getting into the fatigue role in some, I want to talk about just the last tidbits about you. Tell me a little bit about ExcelMale, tell me why you wrote your amazing book on testosterone and what are your thoughts like big picture thoughts on the whole testosterone replacement therapy industry, where it's going.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah, good question. While I worked as an HIV activist and lectured around the country, I wrote a book called, Built to Survive.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Amazing book by the way, it's still in my shelf behind me.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Thank you. Yeah, I must thank Michael Mooney for that too as he was a co-author. That book taught me that a lay person ... I'm an engineer but I'm really a lay person, can write a book that is clinical and patient friendly.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: You have not had pushback from a doctor, Nelson?</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: No. I've never heard that. Even doctors don't give me a hard time and say, you know that I'm highly referenced, I reference everything I say. Anyway, once I could say, okay, well I was able to get anabolics used for HIV wasting and, by the way, anabolic steroids are used not as frequently now because people are not wasting due to effective HIV treatments. I say, you know ... obviously things in HIV were getting better and getting better in this country obviously. I said, I think it's time for me, like you say, we have a goal, we have a mission and then we evolve, that mission evolves into something else. I started getting emails, get this, I don't think I've ever told you this, from HIV negative guy saying, “Do I have to have HIV for you to help me or do I have to get HIV to get access ?”</p><p></p><p> I felt, “Oh my God, I feel so bad for them. No, you don't have to do that, please don't.” That's where I started getting&#8230; there's a world out there that I haven't really helped. Obviously, the HIV world was, I already had done 20 years of work. This is another story, I had two back surgeries, back to back and I was going to be laid down for a while. I said, “Well, I'm going to lose my mind if I don't do something,” so I started, I said, “I'm going to write a book on the basics of testosterone.” I couldn't obviously write a book on anabolics because they're not legal for HIV negatives or even people with no wasting disease. Anyways, so I said, “I'm going to just lie in bed and start typing stuff.”</p><p> That's how I wrote my “Testosterone: A Man's Guide” book from bed and on a laptop. When I published it, I got all this love. I was telling my friends in the gay world, says, “You know, I've gotten a lot more love from the straight world that needed help than even from my HIV folks.” I really feel and maybe I'm in a bubble but I feel all this acceptance, love, people have shown. Then I created a Facebook group, a testosterone replacement therapy discussion Facebook group and people are coming to the group and building up to over 10,0000 members. I met Gene Devine on the Facebook group and he says, “Nelson, you need to create your own website, your own forum. All this information is going to get lost in Facebook”</p><p></p><p> Yeah, that's when I created ExcelMale.com and it's been great, over 13,000 members, we have over 45,000 posts, that's in the past three years. It's become the place, I'm very proud of it.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Let me just say, you know this but just for the listening audience and stuff like that, Nelson's book is amazing, it's a treasure trove and it's highly relevant even right now.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Right, seven years old.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: I used Nelson's book to format my book. He-</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yours is a lot nicer.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Well, I know for a fact that if you would write your book now, today, that you would reorganize a little bit because when you were writing it, there was nothing for you to base anything on. I'm not going to just slam the book.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: It was Dr. Shippen's book was the one that I ... yeah and then you know-</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Yeah. Then there was Morgentaler's book</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: I would write a different book today, of course.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: It's still an amazing book though. You can see, I have so many pages highlighted and colored in and it's just incredible but it's an amazing book. You founded ExcelMale.con, you've obviously got the Facebook group called Testosterone Replacement Therapy Discussion that you and I are a member of. You've got thousands and thousands of men around the world that literally love you and you've been an amazing advocate/pioneer. Again, we've had this conversation before and correct me if I'm wrong but you're not as focused really on TRT anymore, you're writing a book on HCG, I want you to talk about that, but you're also more into the whole fatigue and fatigue management route.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah. I'm evolving. It's evolving again, it's like, “Okay, I've done this work, and still, fatigue is big issue” I also have found that my work has been very male oriented and women need help too.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Absolutely.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Fatigue affects us all, men, women, especially women. They're busier than we are sometimes. I suffer from fatigue, I must be extremely hyper-aware of what I'm doing to my body because I have depleted immune system. That's my focus. Also, more education on the use of hCG.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: I'll probably end using it and between you and-</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: You're young, you know-</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: No but I probably will, there probably does come a time where it's value. Obviously, I've experimented but I've used it on and off. I just felt like it gave me water retention.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah. Most people don't need it, I needed it because I think after so [crosstalk 01:03:36].</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Well, according to some doctors, it's important that we always take it.</p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah. Well, the pathways, the [inaudible 01:03:43] ... Yeah, I'll write a whole chapter on that too because I do believe that too, so I do believe that too. Anyway, so they HCG coming up and eventually, I want to move more into general fatigue and management of fatigue, chronic fatigue. I feel I'm in every form, reading a lot of work on that because as I know, the diagnosis that is fully understood. Yeah, things evolve, we all evolve. I think every creative mind, every a few years, we reinvent ourselves, I'm ready for that now. ExcelMale is running great, Facebook group is crazy, is a lot of people and [crosstalk 01:04:18].</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Yeah. It's hard to manage that man.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: And to manage. I do, before I die, I want to have a few books out. I think you either leave in this world, you leave two things, you leave your kids, you raise them well and you ... I don't have kids, obviously, or you leave books, art, creations that can be forever survive you for years and years, where people can say, “Wow, we're still using this reference.” Part of me is ... be immortal. Obviously, we cannot be immortal but a lot of people and we're reading books from people that wrote them hundreds of years ago. There is another level of immortality and that level is where you put your soul into a product, a book, a piece of art, whatever, it can be anything.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: It lives on forever, [crosstalk 01:05:12].</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: It lives on forever, especially now with the internet. Come on, anybody can create a blog or something that hopefully ... unless the internet shuts down, which is another one of my fears, that we'll have hackers destroy all the work.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Somebody in the dark web will archive everything, don't worry.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Right. I do believe that. Yeah, I'm starting to evolve into other ... fatigue is huge, everybody I know is either run down because we have so many competing things in our lives. We're highly productive, the social media and the cell phones are draining us. We're going to bed later and later, we're exposing ourselves to more and more light at night. Parents are more involved with their kids' education, so they're running around, taking their kids to all these different activities. I see everybody, it's becoming adrenal fatigue, thyroid ... distortion issue is one part of it, I don't [crosstalk 01:06:09].</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Absolutely.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: ... 20 or 30 different factors so I feel like I've covered that enough. Now it's time to move on to [crosstalk 01:06:16].</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: It's awesome.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: I like a challenge, so this is a new challenge.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: It's exactly what we said, it's that whole purpose, your purpose is evolving. Final question and then we'll shut it down. You have always had a good relationship with your doctors. What's your advice for guys out there because this is a question that you and I get literally infinitum. How can a regular guy develop a good relationship with their doctor?</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: That's a great question. The first thing is to find a good doctor, it's almost like a dating game, right? Like you're single, you're trying to find the right partner or whatever and you go through dating for 100 people to come up with one. It's like a dating game, finding a good partner is hard, that's the first step. How do you do that? You get online, you get on forums and start asking people, “Hey, I live here, where is a good doctor,” before you even commit yourself. Sometimes guys want to use their insurance and obviously that ... we have a certain list of doctors that insurance will only work with. Sometimes you're lucky to have a doctor that your insurance will accept and that's like, “Whoa, jackpot.” I have a doctor that it's one of them, he is amazing.</p><p> Let's say that you find eventually a doctor through forums, it may be an insurance doctor or a cash basis doctor, which is a luxury that we still have in this country [crosstalk 01:07:45]-</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Yes, we do.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: ... I get emails from Canada, from the UK, from Germany from men who are very frustrated due to lack of access to proper preventative care. I get emails from all over, I used to coach clients everywhere. I used to be of proponent of socialized medicine but now I know there has to also be a separate system where people can have access to more progressive medicine. But a lot of countries that have socialized medicine have very few options to get to see a doctor who may take cash payments for more flexibility in prescribing without having a government entity telling them what and how to prescribe.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Well, there's not perfect form, there's just no perfect form anywhere, there just isn't.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah but they don't have the choices that we have because they cannot even ... even if they had cash, they don't have a system.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: It's incredible, I know.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: We at least we have that luxury in the U.S. Yeah, and you know, sometimes it may be expensive but Defy Medical and other clinics are out there to decrease frustration in diagnosis and treatment of hormone deficiencies...</p><p> Anyways, once you find, you're lucky and find a good doctor and a good doctor means they're progressive, they're open to suggestions, when you bring up issues, they don't feel threatened by your knowing your stuff and they give a damn, they look interested in what you have to say.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Right, they pay attention to you.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: They're not typing while you're talking. They're human beings and I know their limitations. Once you find that, the first thing I tell people is that you must be friendly, not only with the doctor but with the front desk people.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Absolutely, the gatekeepers.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: The gatekeepers, they are not paid well, they're the gatekeepers, they're the ones that will let you in if you really need to see a doctor fast if the doctor is booked. You need to take care of the people. Treat them with respect, bring them cookies, bring them flowers, find out what their birthdays are, become ... sometimes people say, “Well, that's a lot of work and some of them are just not very nice.” Everybody that is in the front desk is there not only because they are getting paid, they actually give a damn.” Some of may have ... they have a bad attitude because of being so tired of being stepped on. Anyways, make friends with those people, be loving with those people, bring them whatever it is that, cookies or flowers or ... make sure you say good morning and you mean it.</p><p></p><p> Then obviously when you talk to your doctor, prepare yourself like you're preparing for a final exam in school. Write down all your symptoms, whatever you had, questions and when he or she comes into the room and sometimes they're stressed out, they have three other people waiting and they want you not to ask too many questions because they not only have to take care of you but they also ... if they're taking insurance, they must type now with the ICD-10, which requiring the doctors type everything and they code everything. I feel so bad for them.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: It's horrible.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: They even tell me, “Nelson, I can't practice medicine&#8230;I have become a data entry person- “</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: I know, I know.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: You only have five minutes or 10 minutes max pitch to give a doctor the information he needs in the least amount of time so that your needs are met. How do you do that? My doctor knows me so I don't have to do that anymore but I used to, where I'd write everything down, when I come in, he walks in, I say, “Here, read this first before we talk.” Talking, they're thinking about other things or, “Oh my God, there's somebody next door waiting for me for two hours.” That note focuses the doctor's attention on your issues and saves time in questioning.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: That's hilarious.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: I tell you, it's a stupid, little, thing, say, “Yeah, right.” It's a stupid, little thing that works because it gives him focus-</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Yes, absolutely.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: And then they look at you and say, “Okay, I get it.” Sometimes you don't even have to discuss much.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: That's brilliant.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: “Okay, plus I'll prescribe to you this, okay. Okay, I'll check for you. Well, I don't agree with this, did you read that online? Everything online is bullshit.” You must know your stuff because if you say, “I read it online, the internet-”..you may turn him or her off.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Honestly, that's great actionable advice. I've never heard anybody say that before. I'm like you, very smart and go in there and already can ... like them, I speak their language so yeah, that's good because ... and that also sets them at ease because you're not combative, you're going to be confrontational if they say something to you. You're right, they're going to see 25 patients in that day, maybe more, depending on their practice and what they're doing. If you give them your information with bullet points and say, “Hey man, this is really what I want you to focus on related to me.” That sets mind at ease too and all sudden, you're having a conversation rather than you guys rebutting each other.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Even the most difficult doctors respond better, because I've tested this, I have a lot of coaching, I coach a lot of people. You should respect their time and not dwell in long stories.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: I'm sure.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Another thing is say thank you to your doctor all the time. Don't take it for granted, they're human beings, they want to go home and feel good about themselves. When you think they made a mistake, and most doctors make mistakes.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Of course, we all make mistakes.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Most doctors ... yeah, they do. Just accept it, it's part of the ... medicine is not an exact science, it's an art, they're human beings. Don't be bitchy about it.</p><p>Jay Campbell: Yeah. One of my good doctor friends the other day was saying, the white coat God complex is dead.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yes, it should be, I hope so because they're finding out more and more that, “Hey, internet is really empowering a lot of patients.” If you don't get on it, they're going to walk away. Another thing I tell people, and this is important, listen to this. If you're happy with your doctor, refer patients to him or her. They will appreciate it.</p><p>Jay Campbell: Absolutely.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: When you refer because you're happy with them, you tell your friend that is going there, “Tell him that I sent you. Say hi to him for me. ” I do that a lot so my doctor says, “Wow.” They know, if you're referring, you're happy, you're helping with their business. It's a business, they need to make money in a high overhead business setting.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Absolutely, great advice.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: ... don't keep it to yourself ... A lot of guys have a good doctor and they keep it to themselves. This almost thing that, “I don't want him to get too busy because if he gets too busy with more people ...” No, you're not going to lose anything, you're going to gain by letting him or her know that you're so happy with his or her services, that you want your friends to be going there. That's it, it's not really rocket science. If a doctor ... really, you feel like a doctor is not helping you the way you think, treat it like a date and move on.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Go get another one.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Yeah, because I see a lot of guys just suffering over the break-up. It's almost like a break-up. You just don't tell him but ... yes, as I said, some guys with very limited insurance and they don't have the financial means, they must take a little more abuse because they don't have as many options. Even in those HMO settings, there's still some hope. A few clinic networks have become very competitive in pricing, so that is good.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: There is hope.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: HMOs are worse, I must say. If you have the money, pay for a PPO insurance program because you have more choices but expenses may be a lot more.</p><p>Jay Campbell: Well, man, this has been amazing, I am so thankful, I have such gratitude. You constantly bring joy and abundance into my life. Just final statement for you is, for somebody who's watching this and obviously, I don't need to say to people how they find you on the internet but what would be your final message. If somebody wanted to get a hold of you, wanted to work with you as a coach or whatever, how would they reach out to you?</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Excelmale.com. There's a coaching tab there, you can google Nelson Vergel, V-E-R-G-E-L and-</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Nelson will respond to your email if you email him.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Well, it's just for some reason, my email is all over the place. I've been writing since '94 online. At excelmale.com, we didn't talk about DiscountedLabs.com but I also created a company to provide the cheapest and the most affordable blood tests without you needing to go see a doctor.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Yeah, but Nelson's company will be all over ... it's already all over my sites now, so for guys who are watching this, they're going to be exposed to Discounted Labs but yeah, it's the cheapest place online to just go and lab done. I'll have you back on, we'll talk about this kind of labs again because that's a whole another conversation podcast itself. Dude, again, thanks for coming on man, this is the longest podcast I've ever did. The content has been phenomenal, I got you to talk about spirituality so I'm excited, man.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: I know, you got me out of that closet, you're the one that pushes ... I say, “I don't want to talk about my spirituality.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: Well, you know me, I still think that you need to do an autobiography dude. Your life story is so unbelievable and there are [inaudible 01:16:50] many people that read, I know you don't want to do that.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: There are some things that I've done to survive that I don't want to disclose.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: When you die, we'll publish a post mortem.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: There you go, there you go, that's good.</p><p></p><p>Jay Campbell: All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on brother.</p><p></p><p>Nelson Vergel: Thanks a lot for having me, I really appreciate it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Nelson Vergel, post: 82304, member: 3"] PART 3 Nelson Vergel: Thank you. I'm on a research drug that is a monoclonal antibody. It's that super-duper drug administered by IV called ibalizumab that I was lucky to get when I joined a study 5 years ago. Finally, after 27 years now I finally have no detectable HIV in my blood and it has given me more time to help others. Unfortunately, as my immune system was getting better, I got diagnosed with lymphoma in 2014 but eventually I also kicked that one in the ass. Anyways, I was going to get to a point here. It's very important to not let circumstances take you away from that. We have days where we must pay our bills, the kids are sick or things are just piling up. There is no time for you to think about other people, I get it. I even tell people, just try once. Try going to volunteer to any ... I tell people, people say, “Well, I don't know what to get involved with.” I tell people, “Get involved with things that piss you off. Whatever you're angry about, things that are wrong- “ Jay Campbell: That's great advice. Nelson Vergel: They were, “I hate the fact that this is happening.” Well, get involved with whatever cause or whatever non-profit is working on that issue because every issue has obviously ... if there is not, create your own damn group. Jay Campbell: Right, which obviously you and I have done. That's great advice, I'm like you. The one thing I will say that I really, consciously put into place, obviously talking to you and you pushed me to read the Tolle books more than probably anybody. It's like you said, the fear. When you go to bed at night, you shouldn't be worried about something that's coming tomorrow. As you know, we could die in our sleep, okay? Tomorrow is not a guarantee, yesterday is gone. Focusing on yesterday and memories of things that you worry about or tomorrow or a future that may not come. I always think back to myself, I think about ... when I was just like you, the oldest of nine kids, type A, analytical maniac. Just running around, everything has got to be organized, it's got to be done like this, this, this, this. It's like I think about how much time of my life I've wasted because all those things that you focused on, how many of them even materialized? Maybe 1%. It's incredible how people live in the ego mind. We're just literally living in things that we have no earthly idea are even going to happen to us. Nelson Vergel: 90% of the things that we worry about don't ever happen. Jay Campbell: Literally don't happen. It's like once I started, and this is all really for me, I will be the first to admit it, it's all been in the last six months. I have met my spiritual enlightenment or my increase in consciousness has truly ... I've been reading this stuff for a long time, it just didn't resonate and it finally resonated. It's amazing what's happening to me in my life and that's not the topic of this podcast but the really is that it's when you stop living in fear like you said. You stop the pain body, you get rid of that stuff and you don't let it preoccupy your soul realistically or your existence, everything changes. Nelson Vergel: Yeah, and I tell people and people always say, “Well, that's new agey stuff.” I tend to be very analytical, if you read my writings and even my lectures, people say, “Well, Nelson, you never really talk about the mind-body connection. You're so conscious about data and blah, blah, blah, you never- “ Jay Campbell: Right, you're an engineer. Nelson Vergel: “Why are you avoiding that topic even though we know that you have a lot of mind body techniques?” You know, I grew up, there's this part of me that maybe I'm afraid to be labeled as wishy-washy, new agey, blah, blah, blah, and I don't talk about it but like you are the one, you have been the one that says, “Nelson, you need to get over that, you need to speak about that part because not enough people are talking about it.” I'm not trying to sell a book on spirituality, so it's not like- Jay Campbell: Well, let me just stop you because I personally believe from my readings and again, you're 12 years older than me and more well-read than me, you are my mentor, I admit that. Dude, you are who you are and have survived because you have amazing presence, awareness and spiritual energy. Now, I know you're not religious and we're not talking about any of that but all of that is your channeling of your presence. Again, you can define it anyway you want so you are this man, this powerful charismatic figure because you have been able to channel all that. When you were at your deathbed, physically exhausted, your viral load was where it was, you had no real medications to do anything for you, dude, you got through it because of who you are as a human being. Nelson Vergel: Thank you. Jay Campbell: I have no doubt about that and again, I'm not some guru in the Himalayas. I want to be one of those guys someday but realistically like that's truly what has gotten you to your point and you should not be ashamed because you are a brilliant data intellectual, chemical engineer dork. I know you are that guy deep down but you do have massive spiritual power that you ... again, I'm not religious like you but the reality is that does drive you and that energy is everyone. You walk into a room ... I remember Monica sitting down with you and when we just left you entering your car, Monica just looked over at me and she was like, “Jay, that guy is amazing.” Nelson Vergel: Thank you. You guys are so sweet. Love her! Jay Campbell: She just had energy in her body and Monica is already very intuitive, you know that. Nelson Vergel: Yeah, she's highly evolved. Jay Campbell: You touched her, your energy touched her energy and she was just like, “That is an amazing man who's overcome so much in life. You have got to build the most amazing relationship with him.” That's obviously what I've tried to do and I believe it's happening. I don't give a shit, I know people ... you are a little older than me and your generation is like, “That new age bullshit,” but dude, there's so much to this man. Nelson Vergel: Yeah. I need to get out of the closet on that one. Jay Campbell: Yeah, you absolutely do. Listen man, every single, successful person that I have met in my life, like I was telling you, Josh Smith who's an animal, his people literally meditate for 60 minutes a day. Nelson Vergel: Yeah, that's a- Jay Campbell: It's not a coincidence. There is a spiritual part of all of us, however we define it, that ... you define it how you want to define it. It's going deep within as Tolle says, and being present. Nelson Vergel: Yeah. I give people practical advice in that, my friends, I'm very good coach. I can say I've saved a few relationships, most of them straight. Most of them in which a woman has cheated on a man and I've taught people how to forgive. That's really a lot of us make mistakes, we pay the price by being our worst critics. I've made mistakes, I've had that problem, I'm a man of the world. To remember that when somebody hurts because they made a mistake, they are the worst critics and they don't need any more of that on their life. I also remind people that you can have an ego voice every second of your life- Jay Campbell: You can't escape it. Nelson Vergel: That voice is always trying to tell you that you're not worthy, that you don't deserve the love of your wife or your girlfriend or boyfriend, that you really are not good looking, you are not smart enough, people are smarter than you or whatever. You may be delusional in which you think the opposite, the complete opposite, you're better than everybody, that's opposite way. Agreeing with that voice leads nowhere. Jay Campbell: You're not enough, you're not enough. Nelson Vergel: I tell people, “You do not get cured from that.” The only thing that you get cured of, if you really develop the skills, you say, “No, that's not me. No, you're not going to get me... No. I know what you're trying to do.” It's almost like you see it a separate entity that is not you, that is not you and wants to destroy your present. Jay Campbell: It's the ego, it's like you said, it's the ego. Nelson Vergel: As soon as you are aware, that's all you must ... I tell people, “You don't have to do much more that being aware that voice is not you. Jay Campbell: Right. Nelson Vergel: You don't even have to read that much stuff. If you just keep awake, every time that voice comes up, says, “I know who you are. I know that you're trying to bring me down. You are not me “ Jay Campbell: There's an amazing quote in this book Nelson about the stillness of the mind. That's exactly what you're saying. When you are aware of something else talking- Nelson Vergel: You dismantle that ego-voice that wants you to be unconscious. Jay Campbell: It's gone. Nelson Vergel: You dismantle it, you become aware... that's what happens. Most of us embrace that voice and it's the voice that takes over. People, say, “Well, you shouldn't be hearing two voices, you're not a schizophrenic,” and I say “No, I'm not schizophrenic. We all have two voices, we have the voice that is trying to keep us down- “ Jay Campbell: 100% Nelson Vergel: And the voice that is trying to give us hope. The one that is trying to bring us down, as soon as you're aware, not like, “Okay, I'm going to shut you up.” You're not going to shut that voice up ever but you're going to dismantle that voice by saying, “You are not going to rule me, no. Tomorrow is going to be better. Yes, I'm having a shitty day but this is going to be over, this too will pass.” That's the only difference right now between me and 10 years ago, that I can tell myself, “Okay, you ...” I was diagnosed with cancer three years ago while I was getting better with my viral load and that was, “Oh my God, why me once again? No.” Jay Campbell: You and I were talking about, it's like the two statements I take from Tolle, which I'll remember forever, is the two statements, no matter what it is, good or bad in your life; is that so, and this too shall pass, right? Nelson Vergel: This too shall pass. Maybe I'll learn something around this, that's what I say. Maybe I'll be able to write a book about this, like with cancer was, “Maybe I'll just need to learn about cancer, you know.” It wasn't that bad, I had chemo in a bag. I walked around, I went to the grocery store, I went to the gym with my chemo bag. Yeah, I lost my hair and I have a big head so that was kind of freaky but I was always testosterone too, moderate doses, to prevent cancer related wasting. For me, I'm not afraid of cancer anymore, it's almost like I will deal with it if it happens again. “Be optimistic, be realistic, be hopeful but get ready for the worst and accept the worst.” Accept that, just accept it and say, “Okay, what if and what happens? I'm still me, I'm still going to be able to ...” I accept the worst every time something and I also have expect the best. I said, “No, I'm going to fight cancer, I'm going to get over cancer like I did with HIV…May be I will learn something new about acceptance”. Jay Campbell: Yes, absolutely, it's all perspective. Nelson Vergel: Yeah, and the fact that a voice is going to tell me, “Well, this cancer is going to kill you. Okay, you survived a lot but this is going to kill you.” Jay Campbell: The key is what you said there before, you said it never goes away. Nelson Vergel: Never goes away. Jay Campbell: That's what you must be accepting of, Monica always says acceptance. It really is the idea that you can never defeat the enemy, the enemy is always there but can you ... Like you said, disempower the enemy by not listening to it. Nelson Vergel: Dismantling it, yeah, by just saying, “I know what you're trying to do and I know that- “ Jay Campbell: Right. We've got 10 minutes here and I want to talk because we haven't talked ... this has been an amazing podcast. Nelson Vergel: You got into this, this is your- Jay Campbell: No, I would go way deeper with you but I do want to talk about you, I do want to talk about ExcelMale, I want to talk about your book. I know you're getting into the fatigue role in some, I want to talk about just the last tidbits about you. Tell me a little bit about ExcelMale, tell me why you wrote your amazing book on testosterone and what are your thoughts like big picture thoughts on the whole testosterone replacement therapy industry, where it's going. Nelson Vergel: Yeah, good question. While I worked as an HIV activist and lectured around the country, I wrote a book called, Built to Survive. Jay Campbell: Amazing book by the way, it's still in my shelf behind me. Nelson Vergel: Thank you. Yeah, I must thank Michael Mooney for that too as he was a co-author. That book taught me that a lay person ... I'm an engineer but I'm really a lay person, can write a book that is clinical and patient friendly. Jay Campbell: You have not had pushback from a doctor, Nelson? Nelson Vergel: No. I've never heard that. Even doctors don't give me a hard time and say, you know that I'm highly referenced, I reference everything I say. Anyway, once I could say, okay, well I was able to get anabolics used for HIV wasting and, by the way, anabolic steroids are used not as frequently now because people are not wasting due to effective HIV treatments. I say, you know ... obviously things in HIV were getting better and getting better in this country obviously. I said, I think it's time for me, like you say, we have a goal, we have a mission and then we evolve, that mission evolves into something else. I started getting emails, get this, I don't think I've ever told you this, from HIV negative guy saying, “Do I have to have HIV for you to help me or do I have to get HIV to get access ?” I felt, “Oh my God, I feel so bad for them. No, you don't have to do that, please don't.” That's where I started getting… there's a world out there that I haven't really helped. Obviously, the HIV world was, I already had done 20 years of work. This is another story, I had two back surgeries, back to back and I was going to be laid down for a while. I said, “Well, I'm going to lose my mind if I don't do something,” so I started, I said, “I'm going to write a book on the basics of testosterone.” I couldn't obviously write a book on anabolics because they're not legal for HIV negatives or even people with no wasting disease. Anyways, so I said, “I'm going to just lie in bed and start typing stuff.” That's how I wrote my “Testosterone: A Man's Guide” book from bed and on a laptop. When I published it, I got all this love. I was telling my friends in the gay world, says, “You know, I've gotten a lot more love from the straight world that needed help than even from my HIV folks.” I really feel and maybe I'm in a bubble but I feel all this acceptance, love, people have shown. Then I created a Facebook group, a testosterone replacement therapy discussion Facebook group and people are coming to the group and building up to over 10,0000 members. I met Gene Devine on the Facebook group and he says, “Nelson, you need to create your own website, your own forum. All this information is going to get lost in Facebook” Yeah, that's when I created ExcelMale.com and it's been great, over 13,000 members, we have over 45,000 posts, that's in the past three years. It's become the place, I'm very proud of it. Jay Campbell: Let me just say, you know this but just for the listening audience and stuff like that, Nelson's book is amazing, it's a treasure trove and it's highly relevant even right now. Nelson Vergel: Right, seven years old. Jay Campbell: I used Nelson's book to format my book. He- Nelson Vergel: Yours is a lot nicer. Jay Campbell: Well, I know for a fact that if you would write your book now, today, that you would reorganize a little bit because when you were writing it, there was nothing for you to base anything on. I'm not going to just slam the book. Nelson Vergel: It was Dr. Shippen's book was the one that I ... yeah and then you know- Jay Campbell: Yeah. Then there was Morgentaler's book Nelson Vergel: I would write a different book today, of course. Jay Campbell: It's still an amazing book though. You can see, I have so many pages highlighted and colored in and it's just incredible but it's an amazing book. You founded ExcelMale.con, you've obviously got the Facebook group called Testosterone Replacement Therapy Discussion that you and I are a member of. You've got thousands and thousands of men around the world that literally love you and you've been an amazing advocate/pioneer. Again, we've had this conversation before and correct me if I'm wrong but you're not as focused really on TRT anymore, you're writing a book on HCG, I want you to talk about that, but you're also more into the whole fatigue and fatigue management route. Nelson Vergel: Yeah. I'm evolving. It's evolving again, it's like, “Okay, I've done this work, and still, fatigue is big issue” I also have found that my work has been very male oriented and women need help too. Jay Campbell: Absolutely. Nelson Vergel: Fatigue affects us all, men, women, especially women. They're busier than we are sometimes. I suffer from fatigue, I must be extremely hyper-aware of what I'm doing to my body because I have depleted immune system. That's my focus. Also, more education on the use of hCG. Jay Campbell: I'll probably end using it and between you and- Nelson Vergel: You're young, you know- Jay Campbell: No but I probably will, there probably does come a time where it's value. Obviously, I've experimented but I've used it on and off. I just felt like it gave me water retention. Nelson Vergel: Yeah. Most people don't need it, I needed it because I think after so [crosstalk 01:03:36]. Jay Campbell: Well, according to some doctors, it's important that we always take it. Nelson Vergel: Yeah. Well, the pathways, the [inaudible 01:03:43] ... Yeah, I'll write a whole chapter on that too because I do believe that too, so I do believe that too. Anyway, so they HCG coming up and eventually, I want to move more into general fatigue and management of fatigue, chronic fatigue. I feel I'm in every form, reading a lot of work on that because as I know, the diagnosis that is fully understood. Yeah, things evolve, we all evolve. I think every creative mind, every a few years, we reinvent ourselves, I'm ready for that now. ExcelMale is running great, Facebook group is crazy, is a lot of people and [crosstalk 01:04:18]. Jay Campbell: Yeah. It's hard to manage that man. Nelson Vergel: And to manage. I do, before I die, I want to have a few books out. I think you either leave in this world, you leave two things, you leave your kids, you raise them well and you ... I don't have kids, obviously, or you leave books, art, creations that can be forever survive you for years and years, where people can say, “Wow, we're still using this reference.” Part of me is ... be immortal. Obviously, we cannot be immortal but a lot of people and we're reading books from people that wrote them hundreds of years ago. There is another level of immortality and that level is where you put your soul into a product, a book, a piece of art, whatever, it can be anything. Jay Campbell: It lives on forever, [crosstalk 01:05:12]. Nelson Vergel: It lives on forever, especially now with the internet. Come on, anybody can create a blog or something that hopefully ... unless the internet shuts down, which is another one of my fears, that we'll have hackers destroy all the work. Jay Campbell: Somebody in the dark web will archive everything, don't worry. Nelson Vergel: Right. I do believe that. Yeah, I'm starting to evolve into other ... fatigue is huge, everybody I know is either run down because we have so many competing things in our lives. We're highly productive, the social media and the cell phones are draining us. We're going to bed later and later, we're exposing ourselves to more and more light at night. Parents are more involved with their kids' education, so they're running around, taking their kids to all these different activities. I see everybody, it's becoming adrenal fatigue, thyroid ... distortion issue is one part of it, I don't [crosstalk 01:06:09]. Jay Campbell: Absolutely. Nelson Vergel: ... 20 or 30 different factors so I feel like I've covered that enough. Now it's time to move on to [crosstalk 01:06:16]. Jay Campbell: It's awesome. Nelson Vergel: I like a challenge, so this is a new challenge. Jay Campbell: It's exactly what we said, it's that whole purpose, your purpose is evolving. Final question and then we'll shut it down. You have always had a good relationship with your doctors. What's your advice for guys out there because this is a question that you and I get literally infinitum. How can a regular guy develop a good relationship with their doctor? Nelson Vergel: That's a great question. The first thing is to find a good doctor, it's almost like a dating game, right? Like you're single, you're trying to find the right partner or whatever and you go through dating for 100 people to come up with one. It's like a dating game, finding a good partner is hard, that's the first step. How do you do that? You get online, you get on forums and start asking people, “Hey, I live here, where is a good doctor,” before you even commit yourself. Sometimes guys want to use their insurance and obviously that ... we have a certain list of doctors that insurance will only work with. Sometimes you're lucky to have a doctor that your insurance will accept and that's like, “Whoa, jackpot.” I have a doctor that it's one of them, he is amazing. Let's say that you find eventually a doctor through forums, it may be an insurance doctor or a cash basis doctor, which is a luxury that we still have in this country [crosstalk 01:07:45]- Jay Campbell: Yes, we do. Nelson Vergel: ... I get emails from Canada, from the UK, from Germany from men who are very frustrated due to lack of access to proper preventative care. I get emails from all over, I used to coach clients everywhere. I used to be of proponent of socialized medicine but now I know there has to also be a separate system where people can have access to more progressive medicine. But a lot of countries that have socialized medicine have very few options to get to see a doctor who may take cash payments for more flexibility in prescribing without having a government entity telling them what and how to prescribe. Jay Campbell: Well, there's not perfect form, there's just no perfect form anywhere, there just isn't. Nelson Vergel: Yeah but they don't have the choices that we have because they cannot even ... even if they had cash, they don't have a system. Jay Campbell: It's incredible, I know. Nelson Vergel: We at least we have that luxury in the U.S. Yeah, and you know, sometimes it may be expensive but Defy Medical and other clinics are out there to decrease frustration in diagnosis and treatment of hormone deficiencies... Anyways, once you find, you're lucky and find a good doctor and a good doctor means they're progressive, they're open to suggestions, when you bring up issues, they don't feel threatened by your knowing your stuff and they give a damn, they look interested in what you have to say. Jay Campbell: Right, they pay attention to you. Nelson Vergel: They're not typing while you're talking. They're human beings and I know their limitations. Once you find that, the first thing I tell people is that you must be friendly, not only with the doctor but with the front desk people. Jay Campbell: Absolutely, the gatekeepers. Nelson Vergel: The gatekeepers, they are not paid well, they're the gatekeepers, they're the ones that will let you in if you really need to see a doctor fast if the doctor is booked. You need to take care of the people. Treat them with respect, bring them cookies, bring them flowers, find out what their birthdays are, become ... sometimes people say, “Well, that's a lot of work and some of them are just not very nice.” Everybody that is in the front desk is there not only because they are getting paid, they actually give a damn.” Some of may have ... they have a bad attitude because of being so tired of being stepped on. Anyways, make friends with those people, be loving with those people, bring them whatever it is that, cookies or flowers or ... make sure you say good morning and you mean it. Then obviously when you talk to your doctor, prepare yourself like you're preparing for a final exam in school. Write down all your symptoms, whatever you had, questions and when he or she comes into the room and sometimes they're stressed out, they have three other people waiting and they want you not to ask too many questions because they not only have to take care of you but they also ... if they're taking insurance, they must type now with the ICD-10, which requiring the doctors type everything and they code everything. I feel so bad for them. Jay Campbell: It's horrible. Nelson Vergel: They even tell me, “Nelson, I can't practice medicine…I have become a data entry person- “ Jay Campbell: I know, I know. Nelson Vergel: You only have five minutes or 10 minutes max pitch to give a doctor the information he needs in the least amount of time so that your needs are met. How do you do that? My doctor knows me so I don't have to do that anymore but I used to, where I'd write everything down, when I come in, he walks in, I say, “Here, read this first before we talk.” Talking, they're thinking about other things or, “Oh my God, there's somebody next door waiting for me for two hours.” That note focuses the doctor's attention on your issues and saves time in questioning. Jay Campbell: That's hilarious. Nelson Vergel: I tell you, it's a stupid, little, thing, say, “Yeah, right.” It's a stupid, little thing that works because it gives him focus- Jay Campbell: Yes, absolutely. Nelson Vergel: And then they look at you and say, “Okay, I get it.” Sometimes you don't even have to discuss much. Jay Campbell: That's brilliant. Nelson Vergel: “Okay, plus I'll prescribe to you this, okay. Okay, I'll check for you. Well, I don't agree with this, did you read that online? Everything online is bullshit.” You must know your stuff because if you say, “I read it online, the internet-”..you may turn him or her off. Jay Campbell: Honestly, that's great actionable advice. I've never heard anybody say that before. I'm like you, very smart and go in there and already can ... like them, I speak their language so yeah, that's good because ... and that also sets them at ease because you're not combative, you're going to be confrontational if they say something to you. You're right, they're going to see 25 patients in that day, maybe more, depending on their practice and what they're doing. If you give them your information with bullet points and say, “Hey man, this is really what I want you to focus on related to me.” That sets mind at ease too and all sudden, you're having a conversation rather than you guys rebutting each other. Nelson Vergel: Even the most difficult doctors respond better, because I've tested this, I have a lot of coaching, I coach a lot of people. You should respect their time and not dwell in long stories. Jay Campbell: I'm sure. Nelson Vergel: Another thing is say thank you to your doctor all the time. Don't take it for granted, they're human beings, they want to go home and feel good about themselves. When you think they made a mistake, and most doctors make mistakes. Jay Campbell: Of course, we all make mistakes. Nelson Vergel: Most doctors ... yeah, they do. Just accept it, it's part of the ... medicine is not an exact science, it's an art, they're human beings. Don't be bitchy about it. Jay Campbell: Yeah. One of my good doctor friends the other day was saying, the white coat God complex is dead. Nelson Vergel: Yes, it should be, I hope so because they're finding out more and more that, “Hey, internet is really empowering a lot of patients.” If you don't get on it, they're going to walk away. Another thing I tell people, and this is important, listen to this. If you're happy with your doctor, refer patients to him or her. They will appreciate it. Jay Campbell: Absolutely. Nelson Vergel: When you refer because you're happy with them, you tell your friend that is going there, “Tell him that I sent you. Say hi to him for me. ” I do that a lot so my doctor says, “Wow.” They know, if you're referring, you're happy, you're helping with their business. It's a business, they need to make money in a high overhead business setting. Jay Campbell: Absolutely, great advice. Nelson Vergel: ... don't keep it to yourself ... A lot of guys have a good doctor and they keep it to themselves. This almost thing that, “I don't want him to get too busy because if he gets too busy with more people ...” No, you're not going to lose anything, you're going to gain by letting him or her know that you're so happy with his or her services, that you want your friends to be going there. That's it, it's not really rocket science. If a doctor ... really, you feel like a doctor is not helping you the way you think, treat it like a date and move on. Jay Campbell: Go get another one. Nelson Vergel: Yeah, because I see a lot of guys just suffering over the break-up. It's almost like a break-up. You just don't tell him but ... yes, as I said, some guys with very limited insurance and they don't have the financial means, they must take a little more abuse because they don't have as many options. Even in those HMO settings, there's still some hope. A few clinic networks have become very competitive in pricing, so that is good. Jay Campbell: There is hope. Nelson Vergel: HMOs are worse, I must say. If you have the money, pay for a PPO insurance program because you have more choices but expenses may be a lot more. Jay Campbell: Well, man, this has been amazing, I am so thankful, I have such gratitude. You constantly bring joy and abundance into my life. Just final statement for you is, for somebody who's watching this and obviously, I don't need to say to people how they find you on the internet but what would be your final message. If somebody wanted to get a hold of you, wanted to work with you as a coach or whatever, how would they reach out to you? Nelson Vergel: Excelmale.com. There's a coaching tab there, you can google Nelson Vergel, V-E-R-G-E-L and- Jay Campbell: Nelson will respond to your email if you email him. Nelson Vergel: Well, it's just for some reason, my email is all over the place. I've been writing since '94 online. At excelmale.com, we didn't talk about DiscountedLabs.com but I also created a company to provide the cheapest and the most affordable blood tests without you needing to go see a doctor. Jay Campbell: Yeah, but Nelson's company will be all over ... it's already all over my sites now, so for guys who are watching this, they're going to be exposed to Discounted Labs but yeah, it's the cheapest place online to just go and lab done. I'll have you back on, we'll talk about this kind of labs again because that's a whole another conversation podcast itself. Dude, again, thanks for coming on man, this is the longest podcast I've ever did. The content has been phenomenal, I got you to talk about spirituality so I'm excited, man. Nelson Vergel: I know, you got me out of that closet, you're the one that pushes ... I say, “I don't want to talk about my spirituality. Jay Campbell: Well, you know me, I still think that you need to do an autobiography dude. Your life story is so unbelievable and there are [inaudible 01:16:50] many people that read, I know you don't want to do that. Nelson Vergel: There are some things that I've done to survive that I don't want to disclose. Jay Campbell: When you die, we'll publish a post mortem. Nelson Vergel: There you go, there you go, that's good. Jay Campbell: All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on brother. Nelson Vergel: Thanks a lot for having me, I really appreciate it. [/QUOTE]
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Expert Interviews
Adversity, Breakthrough and a Hero’s Battle with Death -Jay Campbell Interviews Nelson Vergel
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