Adding in 60 mgs nandrolone a week

[Fernando Almaguer]

Hello gentlemen (ladies if any),

So I am on 20 mgs test eod and 500 ius hcg twice weekly. I am getting some deca from Dr. Lipshultz clinic. Any precautions I should take before getting into this, how long should i do this. It should help joints and help me add a little mass.

Thinking of injecting 60mgs per week.

 

[LostInPlace]

Only thing I'd have to say here is that you should expect relatively slow and incremental results. Higher doses of nandrolone decanoate are known to have more sides. For me, I get much more oily skin and more likely to have bacne. So it isn't too fun at higher doses where a competition body builder might be. I like smaller doses q.a.d (every other day). I just draw up into my Test-C syringe at the same time to reduce medical waste and poke my butt a little less.

Keep in mind that your bloodwork will be thrown off a bit and nandrolone decanoate stays in the body much much longer than testosterone enanthate/cypionate. Also watch out for left ventricular hypertrophy! Nobody wants cardiac issues.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

Only thing I'd have to say here is that you should expect relatively slow and incremental results. Higher doses of nandrolone decanoate are known to have more sides. For me, I get much more oily skin and more likely to have bacne. So it isn't too fun at higher doses where a competition body builder might be. I like smaller doses q.a.d (every other day). I just draw up into my Test-C syringe at the same time to reduce medical waste and poke my butt a little less.

Keep in mind that your bloodwork will be thrown off a bit and nandrolone decanoate stays in the body much much longer than testosterone enanthate/cypionate. Also watch out for left ventricular hypertrophy! Nobody wants cardiac issueT

Thanks ! Do you dip in the test first then go for the deca when filling insulin syringe?

I didn't know it caused LVH in low doses like that

 

[LostInPlace]

I usually draw up nandrolone first because the vial lasts a lot longer for me at my doses. Really the sequence doesn't matter. I just do it for sake of keeping the longer lasting vial closer to sterile.

I wouldn't worry too much about dose size. Keep an eye on your systolic blood pressure during your regimen.

A really great write up on LVH with regards to nandrolone is here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/comments/5kmur7

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

Thank you LostInPlace!

 

[Hank Moody]

Thanks ! Do you dip in the test first then go for the deca when filling insulin syringe?

I didn't know it caused LVH in low doses like that

I do daily injections and fill the syringe with the test-C first and then top it off with the nandrolone / deca. However, as LIP stated, I really do not think the order matters at all.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

I do daily injections and fill the syringe with the test-C first and then top it off with the nandrolone / deca. However, as LIP stated, I really do not think the order matters at all.

Any adverse sides for you ? Benefits? Your dose?

 

[Wilson7]

Thanks ! Do you dip in the test first then go for the deca when filling insulin syringe?

I didn't know it caused LVH in low doses like that

No one knows if low doses of nandrolone causes LVH, it has never been addressed in humans. It just keeps getting repeated over and over along with the animal studies that suggest it occurs in higher doses and possible mechanisms. We don't know, however given decades of clinical use (200 mg/wk or less) I would suspect there would be at least some case reports by now and not from the genetically altered farm animal wannabees taking high doses of who knows what. If anyone is concerned then get an echo, add in the nandrolone and repeat the echo in a year, if no change repeat in 2 years. That will answer the question. Lastly, everyone responds differently (good and bad) to various treatments. Keep that in mind when asking others about their experiences.

 

[tareload]

We don't know, however given decades of clinical use (200 mg/wk or less) I would suspect there would be at least some case reports by now

Calling all scientific minded nandrolone enthusiasts who understand the finer points of experimental control and type I/II error. I did my own research with Echos and did confirm Diastolic Dysfunction and some LVH / heart enlargement with sub 200 mg/week Test and Nand use over a few years. Diastolic dysfunction reversed over 4 months after ceasing Test. Same experienced Echo technician on both tests.

Good advice on the rest of your advice. Any case reports I post get ignored given the polypharmacy typically present. Good point on the individual response.

 

[tareload]

Read This Before Considering Nandrolone or Any AAS

Usually I’d just leave this info “buried” in the other thread but it’s important enough to daylight it on the main page. Nandrolone based “HRT” and nandrolone use for joint/pain relief continues to garner much discussion and attention and it’s picking up. Please care for yourself. Your long...

forums.t-nation.com

 

[tareload]

Importance of Cardio for Heart Health

Read it. Then you’ll at least have some idea where that potential diastolic dysfunction / hypertrophy came from and whether it’s physiologic CH (athlete’s heart - hard cardio) or pathologic (e.g., fibrosis related - AAS). Light or Hard cardio ain’t going to ameliorate AAS-induced interstitial...

forums.t-nation.com

If anyone makes it this far I have the last Echo showing reversal of the Diastolic Dysfunction. Sorry no cardiac MRI data which may show collagen deposition / myocardial injury.

Of course the sticklers should rightfully bring up the concern of using Echocardiograms to diagnose diastolic dysfunction with E/E' ratio.

Good luck with your journeys. Informed consent.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

Calling all scientific minded nandrolone enthusiasts who understand the finer points of experimental control and type I/II error. I did my own research with Echos and did confirm Diastolic Dysfunction and some LVH / heart enlargement with sub 200 mg/week Test and Nand use over a few years. Diastolic dysfunction reversed over 4 months after ceasing Test. Same experienced Echo technician on both tests.

Good advice on the rest of your advice. Any case reports I post get ignored given the polypharmacy typically present. Good point on the individual response.

Did your diastolic number lower or raise? Also you are off everything now, how long did you take nand. And test, your dose?

 

[Wilson7]

Calling all scientific minded nandrolone enthusiasts who understand the finer points of experimental control and type I/II error. I did my own research with Echos and did confirm Diastolic Dysfunction and some LVH / heart enlargement with sub 200 mg/week Test and Nand use over a few years. Diastolic dysfunction reversed over 4 months after ceasing Test. Same experienced Echo technician on both tests.

Good advice on the rest of your advice. Any case reports I post get ignored given the polypharmacy typically present. Good point on the individual response.

Thus the importance of everyone having pre-post data, on themselves. I have had multiple echos done over the past 30 yrs. Went from normal to Grade 2 to normal to grade 2 to grade one that normalized with exercise. Considerable variability. My advice, if you have any concerns, either follow with echos or don't take T or ND and accept the way you feel, look and function.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

Thus the importance of everyone having pre-post data, on themselves. I have had multiple echos done over the past 30 yrs. Went from normal to Grade 2 to normal to grade 2 to grade one that normalized with exercise. Considerable variability. My advice, if you have any concerns, either follow with echos or don't take T or ND and accept the way you feel, look and function.

What kind of exercise normalized it, were you not exercising before?

 

[tareload]

diastolic number

Not sure what you are referring to. See my posts above. Pulse pressure widened on nandrolone.

Dosages...

What is TRT and What is NOT TRT

I take full responsibility for the protocols I was on so it was immaterial to me what “they” blamed it on. “They” don’t really know. But this is why I urge caution and not to mess with thyroid and play this rT3 game. Guys with TSH at 1.5 and taking T3. Heck, only the “Gainz” providers even...

forums.t-nation.com

Two bouts (about 19 weeks each) of ND under 160 mg/week (100-120 mean) and testosterone cypionate mean 100-120 mg/week (about 4 years on TRT+).

Started back on TRT in June 2022 and ramping back up for my next ER visit.

 

[tareload]

Thus the importance of everyone having pre-post data, on themselves. I have had multiple echos done over the past 30 yrs. Went from normal to Grade 2 to normal to grade 2 to grade one that normalized with exercise. Considerable variability. My advice, if you have any concerns, either follow with echos or don't take T or ND and accept the way you feel, look and function.

Another excellent point. Your Echo results only as good as your Technician. Many years ago I went down the rabbit hole on Atrial Septal Defect because the Echo Tech didn't know what she was doing. Subsequent trans-esophageal Echo ruled it out. Be careful what you look for.

 

[Wilson7]

What kind of exercise normalized it, were you not exercising before?

They did a resting Echo then a stress treadmill Echo. The values normalized on the stress echo done an hour later. More importantly, despite abnormalities, over almost 2 decades they have not worsened. My point is, echos even under the best circumstances can have considerable variability with interpretation. The trend over time vs two time points provides more meaningful data in situations like this. The nandrolone and heart issue is a hot topic, given all the HRT now that includes ND, it is frustrating that no one has studied this in HRT level dosing. We either have animal data designed to show abuse level dosing or human abuse data. That doesn't help the guys that just want an improved QOL and less joint pain.

 

[tareload]

either have animal data designed to show abuse level dosing

And we have animal data with reasonable HED values. Not perfect but buyer beware. It is there.

TRT to Supraphysiological Levels for Body Building

Read through to end of this thread for those interested. Fun being an explorer, right?

 

[Wilson7]

And we have animal data with reasonable HED values. Not perfect but buyer beware. It is there.

TRT to Supraphysiological Levels for Body Building

Read through to end of this thread for those interested. Fun being an explorer, right?

View attachment 27537

Well, given all the recent animal data that nandrolone is cardiotoxic and neurotoxic, perhaps it is time the FDA revisits its approval of nandrolone and removes it from the US market. That will certainly solve the "should I add it question."

 

[tareload]

Well, given all the recent animal data that nandrolone is cardiotoxic and neurotoxic, perhaps it is time the FDA revisits its approval of nandrolone and removes it from the US market. That will certainly solve the "should I add it question."

Let the explorers collect some more human "data". Let's learn more.

Perhaps rats just a poor model for humans.

Recent related case report, nothing definitive.

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/andro.2022.0008