6 Months on TRT, Observations

[andrewBwinter]

Morning.

So six months in to this adventure and beyond the numbers associated with blood panels, I wanted to share some things related to chasing the subjective notion of "feeling better".

• Strength gains in the gym are massive and the knock-on effect is greater confidence in my performance and overall esthetic improvements in appearance. This for me is one of the top results at 120mg/wk (2xe3.5d). Just last night at the gym I repped 185 in OHP and a 21 year old commented, "you're pretty big for an old guy" I'll take it.
• More energy during the day and general outlook on life, but it is tempered with dissatisfaction with work. One thing that most long-term men on therapy will agree is that TRT is not a magic bullet and it won't fix a bad relationship, work status or relationship with your children and friends. It will change your outlook on a day to day basis which in turn helps you cope with any adverse affects of said relationships. Still looking to really "shine' during the day and for me, that relates to finding work that I love.
• While TRT is not an ED medication, experiencing better sexual encounters has been a positive. Will leave it at that.
• Not sure this is a benefit but I look forward to injection days, most likely because I know good things are coming as a result. No pain associated with 25g needles and I don't believe there should be. Quads, glutes, sub-Q, it's all good.
• Sleep is not necessarily better because I continue to snore while on TRT and visit the john at 3:30 each morning. I have been snoring for the past 3-4 years and recently went for a sleep study to rule out OSA.

Blood panels are all good per my last draw so I don't think numbers are the thing, feeling good is the thing.

ABW

 

[Willyt]

Good to see positive experiences here. What have your blood tests looked like?

 

[andrewBwinter]

February 1 was my last panel and I felt good then. Modified my supplements which I have commented on previously. As of now I don't take the most common supps (Vit D, iron, coq-10) and I still feel really good, no sickness to report: Mag Threonate, Boron, Bee pollen, desiccated beef heart and liver, saw palmetto. JUST started nattokinase with serrapeptase (today)

Hemoglobin

171

Hematocrit

0.485

Testosterone (72 hour trough)

HI

33.1 nmol/L ~ 955

Estradiol (non-sensitive)

103 pmol/L

25-Hydroxyvitamin D

I was taking this prior to February 1

162

Vitamin B12

228 pmol/L

Ferritin (blood donor for CDN blood services)

27

 

[madman]

Morning.

So six months in to this adventure and beyond the numbers associated with blood panels, I wanted to share some things related to chasing the subjective notion of "feeling better".

• Strength gains in the gym are massive and the knock-on effect is greater confidence in my performance and overall esthetic improvements in appearance. This for me is one of the top results at 120mg/wk (2xe3.5d). Just last night at the gym I repped 185 in OHP and a 21 year old commented, "you're pretty big for an old guy" I'll take it.
• More energy during the day and general outlook on life, but it is tempered with dissatisfaction with work. One thing that most long-term men on therapy will agree is that TRT is not a magic bullet and it won't fix a bad relationship, work status or relationship with your children and friends. It will change your outlook on a day to day basis which in turn helps you cope with any adverse affects of said relationships. Still looking to really "shine' during the day and for me, that relates to finding work that I love.
• While TRT is not an ED medication, experiencing better sexual encounters has been a positive. Will leave it at that.
• Not sure this is a benefit but I look forward to injection days, most likely because I know good things are coming as a result. No pain associated with 25g needles and I don't believe there should be. Quads, glutes, sub-Q, it's all good.
• Sleep is not necessarily better because I continue to snore while on TRT and visit the john at 3:30 each morning. I have been snoring for the past 3-4 years and recently went for a sleep study to rule out OSA.

Blood panels are all good per my last draw so I don't think numbers are the thing, feeling good is the thing.

ABW

Glad to hear!

Why are you wasting your time with the 25Gs?

Would be far better of using an LDS fixed insulin syringe such as the 27G.

Minimal waste of medication let alone minimize any scar tissue.

 

[madman]

February 1 was my last panel and I felt good then. Modified my supplements which I have commented on previously. As of now I don't take the most common supps (Vit D, iron, coq-10) and I still feel really good, no sickness to report: Mag Threonate, Boron, Bee pollen, desiccated beef heart and liver, saw palmetto. JUST started nattokinase with serrapeptase (today)

Hemoglobin

171

Hematocrit

0.485

Testosterone (72 hour trough)

HI

33.1 nmol/L ~ 955

Estradiol (non-sensitive)

103 pmol/L

25-Hydroxyvitamin D

I was taking this prior to February 1

162

Vitamin B12

228 pmol/L

Ferritin (blood donor for CDN blood services)

27

Missing one of the most important blood markers free testosterone!

You are hitting a high-end trough TT which would have you hitting a high trough FT even if you have highish/high SHBG.

Peak TT, FT, and estradiol will be higher.

What is your SHBG?

Even then if you feel great overall and your blood markers are healthy then stick with it!

Seems as though you are battling high hematocrit due to running a high trough FT judging by the fact that you are hitting a higher-end hematocrit 48.5% and you basically crashed your ferritin most likely due to the frequent blood donations.

Need to get that ferritin up let alone back off on the frequent blood donations!

Going to catch up to you sooner or later.

 

[andrewBwinter]

So Dr. X (who I have mentioned to you previously), doesn't measure SHBG. I specifically asked and the response was "we don't measure that" nor does he do a Free T in the standard OHIP panel that he requests. Not sure why, asked, and that was that. There is an online request I can get that is filled through Dynacare labs and it runs about $190 CDN for the full panel of TT, FT, SHBG, E2.

However, I have dropped my blood donations to once every 3.5 months and added in the desiccated beef liver with Vit C. When I have gone 3+ months (as long as 6 months+) I have had ferritin at 90-100+ so I have adopted that approach, even though it's taking me longer to get to 70 donations (65 right now)

 

[Gman86]

What were the results of ur sleep study? Jc cuz I snore a bit too

 

[andrewBwinter]

What were the results of ur sleep study? Jc cuz I snore a bit too

Just had it on Saturday night during Easter. The specialist is 2 months booked so it won't be interpreted until mid June which is when I have my follow-up

 

[IsaacRob181]

Morning.

So six months in to this adventure and beyond the numbers associated with blood panels, I wanted to share some things related to chasing the subjective notion of "feeling better".

• Strength gains in the gym are massive and the knock-on effect is greater confidence in my performance and overall esthetic improvements in appearance. This for me is one of the top results at 120mg/wk (2xe3.5d). Just last night at the gym I repped 185 in OHP and a 21 year old commented, "you're pretty big for an old guy" I'll take it.
• More energy during the day and general outlook on life, but it is tempered with dissatisfaction with work. One thing that most long-term men on therapy will agree is that TRT is not a magic bullet and it won't fix a bad relationship, work status or relationship with your children and friends. It will change your outlook on a day to day basis which in turn helps you cope with any adverse affects of said relationships. Still looking to really "shine' during the day and for me, that relates to finding work that I love.
• While TRT is not an ED medication, experiencing better sexual encounters has been a positive. Will leave it at that.
• Not sure this is a benefit but I look forward to injection days, most likely because I know good things are coming as a result. No pain associated with 25g needles and I don't believe there should be. Quads, glutes, sub-Q, it's all good.
• Sleep is not necessarily better because I continue to snore while on TRT and visit the john at 3:30 each morning. I have been snoring for the past 3-4 years and recently went for a sleep study to rule out OSA.

Blood panels are all good per my last draw so I don't think numbers are the thing, feeling good is the thing.

ABW

Congrats!

 

[andrewBwinter]

Glad to hear!

Why are you wasting your time with the 25Gs?

Would be far better of using an LDS fixed insulin syringe such as the 27G.

Minimal waste of medication let alone minimize any scar tissue.

I tried a draw with the 25g (normally use 18 and then draw back to clear the needle and switch) but it took a while to fill (Delatestryl). I have about 6 months of needles and syringes so I will look at 27 on the next order.

 

[andrewBwinter]

Seems as though you are battling high hematocrit due to running a high trough FT judging by the fact that you are hitting a higher-end hematocrit 48.5%

This got me thinking about my pre-TRT HCT numbers so I looked at my panels and discovered that I had high HCT before I started TRT. Odd:
pre TRT
July 2019 - 48.7%
Jan 24 2020 - 47.2%
Mar 2021 - 49.2%
Post TRT
Oct 2021 - 50.2% - starting dose 130 mg/wk once weekly
Nov 2021 - 49.5% - Dr. mod - 120 mg / wk (I chose to go with e3.5d)
Feb 2022 - 48.5% - as above

 

[andrewBwinter]

Morning.

So six months in to this adventure and beyond the numbers associated with blood panels, I wanted to share some things related to chasing the subjective notion of "feeling better".

• Strength gains in the gym are massive and the knock-on effect is greater confidence in my performance and overall esthetic improvements in appearance. This for me is one of the top results at 120mg/wk (2xe3.5d). Just last night at the gym I repped 185 in OHP and a 21 year old commented, "you're pretty big for an old guy" I'll take it.
• More energy during the day and general outlook on life, but it is tempered with dissatisfaction with work. One thing that most long-term men on therapy will agree is that TRT is not a magic bullet and it won't fix a bad relationship, work status or relationship with your children and friends. It will change your outlook on a day to day basis which in turn helps you cope with any adverse affects of said relationships. Still looking to really "shine' during the day and for me, that relates to finding work that I love.
• While TRT is not an ED medication, experiencing better sexual encounters has been a positive. Will leave it at that.
• Not sure this is a benefit but I look forward to injection days, most likely because I know good things are coming as a result. No pain associated with 25g needles and I don't believe there should be. Quads, glutes, sub-Q, it's all good.
• Sleep is not necessarily better because I continue to snore while on TRT and visit the john at 3:30 each morning. I have been snoring for the past 3-4 years and recently went for a sleep study to rule out OSA.

Blood panels are all good per my last draw so I don't think numbers are the thing, feeling good is the thing.

ABW

I forgot to add some of the things that don't seem to be affected by TRT:

• Ligaments and tendons don't seem to recover like muscle. While muscles seem to recover extremally quickly after an intense workout using compound movements, i have been battling biceps and elbow tendonitis since before my TRT journey. It doesn't seem to have an affect on tissue with poor blood flow like tendons.
• Osteoarthritis does not appear to be mitigated by TRT. I have been battling an OA hip condition that doesn't seem to be any better after 6 months. Some days are better than others, but the underlying issue hasn't changed. Cartilage can't be regrown and doesn't have a blood supply so I believe a replacement is in the cards in about 1.5 - 2 years.

 

[BigTex]

Morning.

So six months in to this adventure and beyond the numbers associated with blood panels, I wanted to share some things related to chasing the subjective notion of "feeling better".

• Strength gains in the gym are massive and the knock-on effect is greater confidence in my performance and overall esthetic improvements in appearance. This for me is one of the top results at 120mg/wk (2xe3.5d). Just last night at the gym I repped 185 in OHP and a 21 year old commented, "you're pretty big for an old guy" I'll take it.
• More energy during the day and general outlook on life, but it is tempered with dissatisfaction with work. One thing that most long-term men on therapy will agree is that TRT is not a magic bullet and it won't fix a bad relationship, work status or relationship with your children and friends. It will change your outlook on a day to day basis which in turn helps you cope with any adverse affects of said relationships. Still looking to really "shine' during the day and for me, that relates to finding work that I love.
• While TRT is not an ED medication, experiencing better sexual encounters has been a positive. Will leave it at that.
• Not sure this is a benefit but I look forward to injection days, most likely because I know good things are coming as a result. No pain associated with 25g needles and I don't believe there should be. Quads, glutes, sub-Q, it's all good.
• Sleep is not necessarily better because I continue to snore while on TRT and visit the john at 3:30 each morning. I have been snoring for the past 3-4 years and recently went for a sleep study to rule out OSA.

Blood panels are all good per my last draw so I don't think numbers are the thing, feeling good is the thing.

ABW

I would suggest that you find an online doctor (inexpensive) to write a script for a CPAP (no study needed). Go to CPAP Machines, Masks & Supplies for Sleep Apnea | CPAP.com an order a CPAP. These automatically adjust air pressure to your sleep so there is no real clinical setting that needs to be done. You will sleep MUCH better and the snoring will end. TRT and high testosterone are known to exacerbate sleep apnea.

Kim, S. D., & Cho, K. S. (2019). Obstructive Sleep Apnea and Testosterone Deficiency. The world journal of men's health, 37(1), 12–18. Obstructive Sleep Apnea and Testosterone Deficiency

If you are looking for better sleep quality using a synthetic analogue of growth hormone-releasing hormone (GHRH) + GHRP at bed time and you will get much better sleep quality.

 

[Systemlord]

This got me thinking about my pre-TRT HCT numbers so I looked at my panels and discovered that I had high HCT before I started TRT. Odd:
pre TRT
July 2019 - 48.7%
Jan 24 2020 - 47.2%
Mar 2021 - 49.2%
Post TRT
Oct 2021 - 50.2% - starting dose 130 mg/wk once weekly
Nov 2021 - 49.5% - Dr. mod - 120 mg / wk (I chose to go with e3.5d)
Feb 2022 - 48.5% - as above

None of the HCT values are considered high, they are normal.

 

[andrewBwinter]

None of the HCT values are considered high, they are normal.

Which makes me wonder if the only time HCT matters is when it manifests as some other condition.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Another idea for snoring is to 1) tape your mouth shut at night using the wide micropore tape and 2)take a few deep breaths of eucalyptus oil through your nose right before bed. The combination of these two dramatically reduced my snoring, and there are other benefits to nose breathing as well. You may want to at least try that until your decide about the CPAP.

Also, you can search this site for "Fixes for joint issues". I have known and heard of a number of people who were told that they were "bone on bone" who were able to regain decent joint health via a variety of protocols such as GH injections into the joint, hyaluronic acid injections, stems cells, and other things, so it seems like those are worth exploring while you still have decent function in the joint. I also know people who had good results from hip replacements, but it is still very invasive and the longer you can delay it the better the technology will get. The regenexx stem cell blog has some good information although I would not rely on that alone.

 

[andrewBwinter]

Another idea for snoring is to 1) tape your mouth shut at night using the wide micropore tape and 2)take a few deep breaths of eucalyptus oil through your nose right before bed. The combination of these two dramatically reduced my snoring, and there are other benefits to nose breathing as well. You may want to at least try that until your decide about the CPAP.

Also, you can search this site for "Fixes for joint issues". I have known and heard of a number of people who were told that they were "bone on bone" who were able to regain decent joint health via a variety of protocols such as GH injections into the joint, hyaluronic acid injections, stems cells, and other things, so it seems like those are worth exploring while you still have decent function in the joint. I also know people who had good results from hip replacements, but it is still very invasive and the longer you can delay it the better the technology will get. The regenexx stem cell blog has some good information although I would not rely on that alone.

Interesting thoughts re: osteoarthritis. I did have PRP on my left ankle (a poor rehab strategy for my ankle potentially caused the hip issue) and I have had little to no discomfort after surgery for a damaged talus. I may investigate PRP for the hip.

I've read a minimal number of reports on the effects of TRT system-wide on degenerative conditions like OA. It doesn't seem like it helps.

 

[DixieWrecked]

I forgot to add some of the things that don't seem to be affected by TRT:

• Ligaments and tendons don't seem to recover like muscle. While muscles seem to recover extremally quickly after an intense workout using compound movements, i have been battling biceps and elbow tendonitis since before my TRT journey. It doesn't seem to have an affect on tissue with poor blood flow like tendons.
• Osteoarthritis does not appear to be mitigated by TRT. I have been battling an OA hip condition that doesn't seem to be any better after 6 months. Some days are better than others, but the underlying issue hasn't changed. Cartilage can't be regrown and doesn't have a blood supply so I believe a replacement is in the cards in about 1.5 - 2 years.

I've noticed this as well. When I hopped on TRT I went crazy with intense exercise. Heavy compound lifts and sprinting on top of that. I did that before TRT but not to the level that TRT allowed. I ended up looking like a genuine stud but felt like an old man. It took me a while to learn to dial it back. Despite being on TRT the reality is my body is 40 years old. Now, I am still making gains but at a much less ambitious pace. I still look great and I don't feel like I am falling apart.

 

[andrewBwinter]

I've noticed this as well. When I hopped on TRT I went crazy with intense exercise. Heavy compound lifts and sprinting on top of that. I did that before TRT but not to the level that TRT allowed. I ended up looking like a genuine stud but felt like an old man. It took me a while to learn to dial it back. Despite being on TRT the reality is my body is 40 years old. Now, I am still making gains but at a much less ambitious pace. I still look great and I don't feel like I am falling apart.

I have a bug for powerlifting and have been training in that style for 4+ years now. I'm 57 in May. DOMS is never an issue now I'm on TRT but I am taking the advice of Christian Thibodeau and using 2 warm up sets and one work set. He believes we should strive to look better vs. being the strongest in the gym. This is a challenge but it is becoming my new reality. I'll still throw in some powerlifting but minimal at best. Last night I hit 315 for a double on bench. 6 months ago I did cluster single at 225. How times have changed on TRT, but tendons and ligaments haven't.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

The rule of thumb for connective tissue that I have heard is that it has about 1/10th the metabolic rate of muscle due to reduced blood supply. In my experience, (I'm 61) the connective tissue will adapt but it takes time. The most important thing is to avoid what Stu McGill calls "cummulative trauma". I stopped going to failure back around 2010 and have replaced that with multiple sets of between 1-5 reps at 90-95% of 1RM. The total volume I do now is astronomical compared to when I trained to failure, I am stronger overall, and my joints are much happier about it. I also train the bigger lifts with at least 3-4 days rest, or more, and have reduced the volume of work my lower back has to do, all of which has helped.