HCG is not working anymore. Do I have antibodies to it?

Nelson Vergel said:

I still stick with my previous suggestion of TRT+ HCG. Like you said, testing sperm quality and motility at baseline and then 6 weeks later would be good. You can follow the Lipshultz' protocol.

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jimithing said:

Hi all,

So I just got my latest lab results online through Quest. I see my doc next week. This would explain why I feel like shit the last 2-3 months steadily feeling worse. I thought that I was overtraining as I was training for a lifting comp and deadlifting 2x a week - i thought I had fried my CNS. Maybe that was part of it but my lab results would suggest otherwise.

Im currently taking Hcg injections 450iu 3x a week.

Here's my labs with ranges taken 10-28-14.

Test total 295 250-1100
Test Free 44.1 46-224
Test Bioavailable 96.4 110-575
SHBG 26 10-50
Estradiol Ultrasensitive 12 <25

This is my 4th set of labs now since I started this whole thing a year and a half ago and the lowest my T has been.

I initially had started on Hcg sublingual for a few months as my doc had said he had some patients respond to it. After a few months and finding this forum I questioned it as I hadn't felt any different and my labs confirmed it.

Nov 2013 on sublingual Hcg I forget dose
Test total 363
E2 12

Jan 2014 Now on Hcg injections 350u 3x a week. Best I ever felt this whole time.
Test Total 1071
E2 43
After this lab my doc wanted me to take anastrazole at .25mg 2x a week.

May 2014 Hcg 400u 3x week and .25 anastrazole 2x week
Test total 526
E2 <2 My E tanked and I felt like crap. Stopped anastrazole after this completely.

So here I am now i've come full circle and actually have worse numbers than when I started this and Im actually paying $$ for this. Symptoms I've had recently. Fatigue, sleep like crap, low sex drive, depression, my wife would say im moody. Gains at the gym are nil and motivation to workout is nil. Im typically pretty active and lift/workout 4-6 days per week and eat a good diet. Im pretty down at the moment and frustrated.

I know that I need to make the switch to T injections along with Hcg but my wife and I are trying to have a baby. Hopefully in the next 2 weeks she'll find out she is pregnant. See my other post here.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...erapy-vs-hcg-and-test-when-trying-to-conceive

I feel like if I was going to try going up on the Hcg I'd need to almost double the dose or go up significantly or start with T and get my sperm checked every couple months. Thoughts?

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jimithing said:

So I met with my doc today. I was hoping to get a response on this forum as to why my numbers dropped.

My doc came up with a few potential reasons.
1) the vials of Hcg I was using somehow became inactive. I don't think this is very likely as it's been over multiple shipments and vials.
2) My body has down regulated receptors for the Hcg, and my testes aren't responding and that based on my current dose (450iu 3x a week) he would not expect a higher dose to make a difference
3)I have potentially developed antibodies to the Hcg which would render it inactive prior to it being able to stimulate testicular tissue. I have not heard of this before - anyone have any input on this?

Here are my options that he gave me. Keep in mind my wife and I are trying to conceive. She is having issues ovulating we've been working with a fertility specialist on her end the last 6 months.

A) Stop Hcg and everything all together and see how I respond. Im not all that inclined to do this but im not sure if i'd actually feel any worse than I do now as the Hcg doesn't seem to even be working.
B) Try a different name brand Hcg to rule out that the prior Hcg was active. Im not really interesed in this option as I don't think that's the reason.
C) Try Clomid 2-3 days per week and drop the Hcg. Clomid can help raise T levels also supporting sperm count.
D) Start T cyp therapy with or without HcG at 70-80mg 2x a week. Get a sperm rechecked in 2 months. He thinks that if I am going to have an issue with sperm that it we would start to see it around 2 months.

So Im inclined to start the T but my wife is not. She wasn't able to make my appt with me today so (i don't think) totally understands everything. My only concerns is this antibody thing that he's talking about - if that is the case then the HcG likely won't do anything even with T.

Again looking for thoughts on this particular question with regards to me potentially having antibodies to the Hcg. Obviously it's just a theory and hasn't been formally studied. But there are a lot of studies that have not been done in this field. He said he has colleagues in the HRT field that do believe in it.

I don't know if Lipshultz does long distance treatment but Im going to email his office and ask to try to get a 2nd opinion on this.
thanks

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a_crossfitter said:

If you're injecting hcg and your Dr thinks you might not be benefiting from HCg then the proof would be in sperm counts before HCg and now. Hcg emulates lh. Hcg will make your sperm count to go up.

If your Dr doesn't catch up to this fact then I would consider getting another Dr.

Clomid, a female fertility drug, will also help raising t levels in men as well as sperm count.

I don't mean to be mean, but you need to be prepared to challenge your Dr on what his theories are or else you are wasting your time seeing him. Aka, you need to understand what all these drugs do prior to seeing him....because after all, he's the one that will give you the script.

If I were you I would get a sperm count before you do anything and take t shots and be on clomid for a month or so (simultaneously) afterwards and repeat the sperm count.

Or just go to Dr says or crisler!

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