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    • Looking for a good thyroid forum

      Thank you very much for commenting guys.

      I'll try to fill in the blanks:

      Diabetes - I have been diabetic for approx 14 years. 2.5 years ago I fired most of my doctors and took control of my own health. My endo had me on 4 shots of insulin daily plus metformin. My A1C was 13. Today my A1C averages 6.7. Yes that is still high but much better than it was. My morning number is ALWAYS high. I believe I have dawn phenomenon but recently have discovered that high cortisol, which I have at night, will cause my sugar level to rise at night. I am therefore trying to concentrate on controlling that cortisol and hoping my numbers will come down further.

      My diet is mostly on point. My cholesterol, triglycerides and everything is great. My LDL only rose slightly in that latest labwork....so I eat protein, good carbs and fats (except a cheat day or 2 here and there).
      I have been in the gym for 2.5 years and lost (and keeping off) 100 lbs. When I was first hit with diabetes I was very active, not a couch potato. I gained 125 lbs in about a year and half, so ive managed to get 100 lbs back off and did this while I have been unknowingly hypothyroid.

      Backtracking 1.5 years ago I started my trt with the popular clinic this forum speaks highly of that starts with a D.
      For sake of saving a little typing I wont detail every change in protocol but ill outline.
      I started with usual trt / hcg. After a while added test cream and that is when my dht when through the roof, prior to that it was non existent. Same type of thing with my dhea...added it and it went way up. I have stopped the dhea about 4 weeks ago.

      I really never felt a lot better on trt...I would say I made a 20% improvement but at least I was better than I had been feeling with my very low T of 197 prior.
      About 6 months before starting trt I had a 3 = 4 week period where for no reason I was superman. Ive had chronic fatigue for 14 years (probably from hypothyroidism) but for no reason and not on any trt I was out doing yardwork, planting trees, super happy, super libido, super morning,afternoon, night time wood, etc etc. That disappeared after 4 weeks and after I couldnt get that back I realized how bad I was, what I should be like, and I started with TRT.

      So after months / or about a year on trt we started increasing dose and I thought I was feeling better so we kept that going. During the course of that my E2 went up a bit to about 65. We then increased my anastrozole and next labs my E2 was very low, I forget exactly but it was somewhere between an 8 and a 17 if I remember. As this was happening I decided that so far nothing has worked and I needed to try something different to figure this out, everyone is different and these minute protocol changes were wasting my time.
      I started a 'blast' of 500mg test/week while still maintaining my 900iu of hcg / week and 2-3 clicks of test cream. You see those results in the labs I posted with high FT, TT and E2. We changed my AI to adex and I went back to my TRT dosing and thats what im in the middle of now.

      Thyroid -
      Didnt discover I was hypothyroid until several months ago where I requested the proper labs to add to my RX. I was then started on NP Thyroid and protocols went from 1 grain daily to 2 to 3 and 4 then back to 2. During all this I was told my numbers didnt look bad (my RT3 was in the normal range still) yet I still feel like crap.
      When we consulted and went over my labs about 3 weeks ago I was changed from np thyroid (which is t3 + t4) to cytomel (Liothyronine) which is t3 only and started at 1/2 pill (12.5mcg) daily and now at 25mcg daily.
      I have absolutely no energy and no drive. I get out of bed tired, and I want to get back in bed a couple hours later. Its as bad as its ever been, like before TRT.
      Im hoping this is because of my high E2 but wont know unless I start feeling more energy as my E2 comes down, or maybe the change to cytomel will help but it hasnt yet so I dont think it will.
      Im debating on what to do with those thyroid meds and if I should add back the np thyroid. I know not to jump around but tyroid meds should make a difference in just a few days. WhenI first started the np thyroid a few months ago I actually felt better and had more energy within 3 days. That lasted about 3 weeks then faded away also.

      I know high RT3 is because it is not making it to my cells which is why I am so freaking tired.

      RATBAG - 4-5 months ago I was low on all the iron labs that you recommended. I took an iron supplement and everything came up to good levels by my next labs. I continued to take it but then was having symptoms of too much iron and the Dr said I could stop because once my iron levels came up that should stay there anyway unless there was another issue. Those levels have remained steady for a few months now with no supplementation.

      ORRIN -
      To fill in what I havent already:
      Currently - 220 mg test cyp weekly / 900 iu hcg weekly both of those are total numbers but they are split up to 3x a week. Test cream 3 clicks daily.
      I inject m/w/f and I did my labs on monday before I took anything.
      My current other meds are just plavix and just started back on ramipril for high bp. Was not on any bp for several years but my top number is consistently around 145.

      DNFUSS -
      I agree. Diabetes bacame secondary because I got it from a 13 to a 6.6 so I was concentrating on the fatigue.

      Supplements - I have a myriad of supps. I kind of rotate them and mostly are for promoting and maintaining circulation along with vitamins and herbs like turmeric. Instead of listing everything i'll just say I take nothing with iron and nothing with calcium within 4 hours of the thyroid meds, which I take and do not eat for an hour.

      Ok guys, I hope that is enough info.
      I realize im not the normal black and white case here im just hoping someone can shed light on anything I dont already know of have tried. I dont know what else to do. Protocols from the Dr are not working and I dont want to start over with someone new because I feel like im just going to repeat the cycle again.
      I know there has to be a solution somewhere because like I said earlier in this post there was a 3-4 week period that I felt like I was 20 again. If I can get halfway to that i'd be happy.

      Thank you all again.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Looking for a good thyroid forum
      Comments 50 Comments
      1. BillyJ03z's Avatar
        BillyJ03z -
        RayPeat forums....
      1. rhino5169's Avatar
        rhino5169 -
        Quote Originally Posted by BillyJ03z View Post
        I just followed your link and all I can say is Wow. That is an extensive forum, I cant believe i've never come across that one.

        Thank you
      1. rhino5169's Avatar
        rhino5169 -
        Ok looks ok but im gonna keep looking for a dedicated thyroid forum
      1. BillyJ03z's Avatar
        BillyJ03z -
        NP!! I hope you find the answers and get the solid advice you need!
      1. Vince Carter's Avatar
        Vince Carter -
        Quote Originally Posted by rhino5169 View Post
        Hey guys,

        So can anyone recommend a good thyroid forum where they know what they're talking about and where I can actually post labs?
        Stop the thyroid madness looks like it's only a reading site, no forum?

        This has been going on too long and cant get any better after several protocols and 2 types of medication.

        I need help.
        Thanks
        Has EM not worked well for you? I'm pretty good with Thyroid but VettesterChris is the who I call the guru.
      1. rhino5169's Avatar
        rhino5169 -
        Quote Originally Posted by Vince Carter View Post
        Has EM not worked well for you? I'm pretty good with Thyroid but VettesterChris is the who I call the guru.
        VC,
        EM has a lot of info and a bunch of helpful guys such as you, and that is appreciated.
        I'm just trying to get better, it's been way too long, so I don't mean for things to be interpreted the wrong way.
        Yes Chris has helped also, but in general I think it's what tests to get and things like that.
        I'm hoping to find answers. Hoping that someone might be able to decipher my labs and know what I should actually do.

        Having said that I'll post up my labs tomorrow.
      1. HarryCat's Avatar
        HarryCat -
        The STTM forum is on Yahoo: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...dHormones/info

        it is a heavily moderated group they need to pre-approve every post before it goes up and if you don't do exactly what they say you will be thrown off.

        There is also the thyroid UK forum on HealthUnlocked, which is more open.
      1. Orrin Israel's Avatar
        Orrin Israel -
        Not a forum but may be the best thyroid site out there and get her book.
        www.tiredthyroid.com
        another one with a lot of info:
        www.hypothyroidmom.com
      1. rhino5169's Avatar
        rhino5169 -
        Ok here are my latest labs.
        When these were drawn my thyroid protocol was 2 grains of np thyroid daily. Ive been on np thyroid for approx 8 months at different dosages. The first few weeks I felt great but for the last 7 months i havent.
        So after these labs we changed my protocol to stop the np thyroid and start cytomel at 1/2 tablet daily (12.5mcg) for a week then go to 1 tablet daily. Ive been on this for 3 weeks or so and my fatigue is as bad as its ever been. We changed because of the high RT3.

        Im wondering though if my high E2 is the cause of the tiredness, but my e2 has been pretty high the last couple of months and i want as tired as i am now after switching to cytomel only.

        Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.


        Attachment 4714

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        Attachment 4715
      1. rhino5169's Avatar
        rhino5169 -
        So this is why I was looking to post in a dedicated thyroid forum.
        Posted these labs 5 days ago with zero response.

        Maybe I'll start a new thread to see if that helps.
      1. Orrin Israel's Avatar
        Orrin Israel -
        Just a quick look and your E2 is through the roof.
        Your "T" is through the roof.
        Your DHEA is high.
        How much "T" are you taking?
        What is your protocol?
        Did you run labs the same morning you took your "T"?
        What MEDs are you taking and dose?
        What supplements are you taking and dose?
        What DR are you seeing? Your GP or?
        What kind of diet do you have?
        High glucose. Do you eat a lot of carbs, sugar, etc.?
        Your A1C is high - Diet?
      1. 1Draw's Avatar
        1Draw -
        Quote Originally Posted by rhino5169 View Post
        So this is why I was looking to post in a dedicated thyroid forum.
        Posted these labs 5 days ago with zero response.

        Maybe I'll start a new thread to see if that helps.
        Rhino in addition to way too much Testosterone and Estradiol, your Reverse T3 is high at
        25.7 ( 9.2 - 24.1) My RT3 was 28.4 after a serious sinus infection and antibiotics to treat. I'm currently taking 5mcg 2 x day of Liothyronine. Have been on this for 10 days and beginning to feel somewhat better.

        Here is excellent website that gives ranges and ranges that are optimal plus, how to treat the out of range items: https://www.restartmed.com/normal-thyroid-levels/

        I don't know who your doctor is but, Defy can certainly help with your thyroid and out of range lab test results. Good Luck!
      1. ratbag's Avatar
        ratbag -
        High RT3 is supposed to be because of low cortisol which you don't have or low ferritin (one of the two). Technically there are no other reasons. Do you know your FT3? Some people need to get their ferritin higher than you have to make it work. So you could try supplementing some iron for a few months and see if it works. In short with high RT3 your T3 pools and doesn't enter your cells, organs tissue etc, even with a normal level of FT3.

        Aside of that your copper looks a little low and your testosterone serum and Free T look off the charts along with your E2, You might consider lowering that dosage and get your E2 under control
      1. captain's Avatar
        captain -
        I thought RT3 could be high if you was over dosing thyroid, dieting or sick.
      1. Blackhawk's Avatar
        Blackhawk -
        I have similar questions as Orrin. Looks like you have other things going on besides the thyroid.

        Though RT3 is high, FT3 at 3 is not bad. Some people feel better with free T3 around 4.

        But your TT, FreeT, E2 etc, sheesh!
      1. dnfuss's Avatar
        dnfuss -
        I would worry first about controlling my diabetes. Failure to do so can be extremely serious. The goal should be to achieve normal blood sugars.
      1. rhino5169's Avatar
        rhino5169 -
        Thank you very much for commenting guys.

        I'll try to fill in the blanks:

        Diabetes - I have been diabetic for approx 14 years. 2.5 years ago I fired most of my doctors and took control of my own health. My endo had me on 4 shots of insulin daily plus metformin. My A1C was 13. Today my A1C averages 6.7. Yes that is still high but much better than it was. My morning number is ALWAYS high. I believe I have dawn phenomenon but recently have discovered that high cortisol, which I have at night, will cause my sugar level to rise at night. I am therefore trying to concentrate on controlling that cortisol and hoping my numbers will come down further.

        My diet is mostly on point. My cholesterol, triglycerides and everything is great. My LDL only rose slightly in that latest labwork....so I eat protein, good carbs and fats (except a cheat day or 2 here and there).

        I have been in the gym for 2.5 years and lost (and keeping off) 100 lbs. When I was first hit with diabetes I was very active, not a couch potato. I gained 125 lbs in about a year and half, so ive managed to get 100 lbs back off and did this while I have been unknowingly hypothyroid.

        Backtracking 1.5 years ago I started my trt with the popular clinic this forum speaks highly of that starts with a D.
        For sake of saving a little typing I wont detail every change in protocol but ill outline.
        I started with usual trt / hcg. After a while added test cream and that is when my dht when through the roof, prior to that it was non existent. Same type of thing with my dhea...added it and it went way up. I have stopped the dhea about 4 weeks ago.

        I really never felt a lot better on trt...I would say I made a 20% improvement but at least I was better than I had been feeling with my very low T of 197 prior.
        About 6 months before starting trt I had a 3 = 4 week period where for no reason I was superman. Ive had chronic fatigue for 14 years (probably from hypothyroidism) but for no reason and not on any trt I was out doing yardwork, planting trees, super happy, super libido, super morning,afternoon, night time wood, etc etc. That disappeared after 4 weeks and after I couldnt get that back I realized how bad I was, what I should be like, and I started with TRT.

        So after months / or about a year on trt we started increasing dose and I thought I was feeling better so we kept that going. During the course of that my E2 went up a bit to about 65. We then increased my anastrozole and next labs my E2 was very low, I forget exactly but it was somewhere between an 8 and a 17 if I remember. As this was happening I decided that so far nothing has worked and I needed to try something different to figure this out, everyone is different and these minute protocol changes were wasting my time.
        I started a 'blast' of 500mg test/week while still maintaining my 900iu of hcg / week and 2-3 clicks of test cream. You see those results in the labs I posted with high FT, TT and E2. We changed my AI to adex and I went back to my TRT dosing and thats what im in the middle of now.

        Thyroid -
        Didnt discover I was hypothyroid until several months ago where I requested the proper labs to add to my RX. I was then started on NP Thyroid and protocols went from 1 grain daily to 2 to 3 and 4 then back to 2. During all this I was told my numbers didnt look bad (my RT3 was in the normal range still) yet I still feel like crap.
        When we consulted and went over my labs about 3 weeks ago I was changed from np thyroid (which is t3 + t4) to cytomel (Liothyronine) which is t3 only and started at 1/2 pill (12.5mcg) daily and now at 25mcg daily.
        I have absolutely no energy and no drive. I get out of bed tired, and I want to get back in bed a couple hours later. Its as bad as its ever been, like before TRT.
        Im hoping this is because of my high E2 but wont know unless I start feeling more energy as my E2 comes down, or maybe the change to cytomel will help but it hasnt yet so I dont think it will.
        Im debating on what to do with those thyroid meds and if I should add back the np thyroid. I know not to jump around but tyroid meds should make a difference in just a few days. WhenI first started the np thyroid a few months ago I actually felt better and had more energy within 3 days. That lasted about 3 weeks then faded away also.

        I know high RT3 is because it is not making it to my cells which is why I am so freaking tired.

        RATBAG - 4-5 months ago I was low on all the iron labs that you recommended. I took an iron supplement and everything came up to good levels by my next labs. I continued to take it but then was having symptoms of too much iron and the Dr said I could stop because once my iron levels came up that should stay there anyway unless there was another issue. Those levels have remained steady for a few months now with no supplementation.

        ORRIN -
        To fill in what I havent already:
        Currently - 220 mg test cyp weekly / 900 iu hcg weekly both of those are total numbers but they are split up to 3x a week. Test cream 3 clicks daily.
        I inject m/w/f and I did my labs on monday before I took anything.
        My current other meds are just plavix and just started back on ramipril for high bp. Was not on any bp for several years but my top number is consistently around 145.

        DNFUSS -
        I agree. Diabetes bacame secondary because I got it from a 13 to a 6.6 so I was concentrating on the fatigue.

        Supplements - I have a myriad of supps. I kind of rotate them and mostly are for promoting and maintaining circulation along with vitamins and herbs like turmeric. Instead of listing everything i'll just say I take nothing with iron and nothing with calcium within 4 hours of the thyroid meds, which I take and do not eat for an hour.

        Ok guys, I hope that is enough info.
        I realize im not the normal black and white case here im just hoping someone can shed light on anything I dont already know of have tried. I dont know what else to do. Protocols from the Dr are not working and I dont want to start over with someone new because I feel like im just going to repeat the cycle again.
        I know there has to be a solution somewhere because like I said earlier in this post there was a 3-4 week period that I felt like I was 20 again. If I can get halfway to that i'd be happy.

        Thank you all again.
      1. FeelingLost's Avatar
        FeelingLost -
        rhino I can't offer any advice but I wanted to post after reading your story above. DAM what a journey, Well done. I do hope you can find your thyroid answers.
      1. rhino5169's Avatar
        rhino5169 -
        Quote Originally Posted by FeelingLost View Post
        rhino I can't offer any advice but I wanted to post after reading your story above. DAM what a journey, Well done. I do hope you can find your thyroid answers.
        Thank you FL. I always enjoy your input to all the threads.
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