Why Can't I Tolerate TRT From a Mental Standpoint?

[Gman86]

There certainly are those for whom TRT has solved their mental health issues, PeakT always said that TRT cured his lifelong depression. But clearly there are those of us who get little to no benefit and maybe even do a little worse in some respects on TRT. I do think that is it primarily driven by how your neurotransmitters get affected by TRT. I still remember how great I felt during the honeymoon period I had with Androgel, I thought I had hit upon a miracle cure. Of course that didn't last long and I came tumbling back to earth. I have tried a lot of different expertly administered protocols since that time and have never felt any improvement in any of my pre-TRT symptoms.

As has been mentioned on the forum before there is research that shows that there are genetic variations that can affect how guys respond to TRT.

I also think that a lot of us bring a lot of previous medical baggage into TRT, in my case I had taken a saw palmetto supplement for many years and for a 2 year period was put on heavy doses of AD's because no doctor thought of testing my hormones first. I wonder if either one or both of these has caused permanent damage.

The only thing that I have found that makes me feel normal again for a little while is to take a 1-2 month break from TRT and then when I start up again I get a little bit of a honeymoon period again.

Seems to me that if you went through a honeymoon period where you felt amazing, you probably didn’t do permanent damage on those supplements and medications. To me, that honeymoon phase proves that you can feel that great again. It’s just a matter of figuring out what to do to get there. I could be wrong. But just wanted to give you some words of encouragement.

 

[Gman86]

On TRT I've experienced the emotional flatness to a degree, along with a dampened "reward system". Dopamine boosters like NALT help some. More recently the switch to daily propionate seems to be helping as well, though it's only been a month. It's possible that a diurnal variation in hormones is more important than we realize.

I’m starting to think this as well. Just a hypothesis, but I definitely have my eye on this factor lately as well, and will be testing it out on myself, as I just switched to EOD propionate injections.

 

[Charliebizz]

See I never went through a honeymoon period at all

 

[Gman86]

See I never went through a honeymoon period at all

Ya me neither. But I know 100% I’ll get back to being my old self. It’s just a matter of addrsssing every issue. For me, I know my issues are most likely caused by mold. Im working on getting out of the house I’m at, and should be out in a month or two. In the meantime, I’m addressing my thyroid, which is an extremely overlooked issue, imo.

TRT has helped improve some areas, but definitely didn’t cure the initial symptoms that started me on my hormone optimization journey. So it’s just trial and error. Eliminating the reason(s) that caused your hormones to be imbalanced in the first place, and addressing every single hormone imbalance you may have. Not just addressing testosterone and E2. The body works as a whole. 9/10 major hormones can be optimized, and you can still feel like garbage if that one hormone is still out of balance. The body works synergistically and as a whole unit. Everything needs to be in balance to feel optimal.

 

[Cataceous]

I’m starting to think this as well. Just a hypothesis, but I definitely have my eye on this factor lately as well, and will be testing it out on myself, as I just switched to EOD propionate injections.

I'll be interested in your impressions after you've tried it for some time.

 

[sh1973]

So Cat how are you feeling so far on prop?

 

[Gman86]

S

I'll be interested in your impressions after you've tried it for some time.

I’ll definitely make a thread once the cyp is mostly out of my system.

 

[Charliebizz]

Ya me neither. But I know 100% I’ll get back to being my old self. It’s just a matter of addrsssing every issue. For me, I know my issues are most likely caused by mold. Im working on getting out of the house I’m at, and should be out in a month or two. In the meantime, I’m addressing my thyroid, which is an extremely overlooked issue, imo.

TRT has helped improve some areas, but definitely didn’t cure the initial symptoms that started me on my hormone optimization journey. So it’s just trial and error. Eliminating the reason(s) that caused your hormones to be imbalanced in the first place, and addressing every single hormone imbalance you may have. Not just addressing testosterone and E2. The body works as a whole. 9/10 major hormones can be optimized, and you can still feel like garbage if that one hormone is still out of balance. The body works synergistically and as a whole unit. Everything needs to be in balance to feel optimal.

Ya me neither. But I know 100% I’ll get back to being my old self. It’s just a matter of addrsssing every issue. For me, I know my issues are most likely caused by mold. Im working on getting out of the house I’m at, and should be out in a month or two. In the meantime, I’m addressing my thyroid, which is an extremely overlooked issue, imo.

TRT has helped improve some areas, but definitely didn’t cure the initial symptoms that started me on my hormone optimization journey. So it’s just trial and error. Eliminating the reason(s) that caused your hormones to be imbalanced in the first place, and addressing every single hormone imbalance you may have. Not just addressing testosterone and E2. The body works as a whole. 9/10 major hormones can be optimized, and you can still feel like garbage if that one hormone is still out of balance. The body works synergistically and as a whole unit. Everything needs to be in balance to feel optimal.

thats why I pretty much given up on trt. I’d be fine with it if it gave me the very very subtitle improvements it did. But the negative effect it has on my mental and sports performance is a deal breaker. So crazy I actually perform better at hockey with low t then “normal” testosterone levels on trt.

 

[Cataceous]

So Cat how are you feeling so far on prop?

I wrote about some transient sensitivity gains while making the switch. Otherwise it's fairly subtle, and I wouldn't claim for certain that my better mood and motivation are a result of the change, as opposed to coincidence or the placebo effect. Nonetheless, I think it was worth doing and I intend to stick with it.

 

[TDCNINJA]

Most of the guys that you find on the forum that have mental issues or problems while on TRT and struggle with that inspite of TRT, or their hormones, in general. IMVHO when you show up here with anxiety, depression, OCD, ADHD, insecurities, that's not going be bettered with TRT, or Thyroid treatments. This forum is laden with those you can't help because of their insecurities. So they take it as failure. Even discounting bad Dr's and bad treatment protocols you just can't surmount the kind of issues that guys are showing up here with that think TRT is going to fix what's between their ears.

What you say is true, of course, however, I had serious head trauma (TBI) in the Army. I understand that most people who've had serious head trauma have hormonal imbalances due to inflammation in the head following trauma.

I'll be the first one to admit that I'm extremely messed up as far as anxiety goes. But I know this, I'm going to try my best.

 

[Charliebizz]

What you say is true, of course, however, I had serious head trauma (TBI) in the Army. I understand that most people who've had serious head trauma have hormonal imbalances due to inflammation in the head following trauma.

I'll be the first one to admit that I'm extremely messed up as far as anxiety goes. But I know this, I'm going to try my best.

Did you ever look into dr mark gordan warrior angels foundation. I listene to a joe Rogan podcast had some interesting stuff on tbi and hormones

 

[Vitamin_C]

I believe TRT increases COMT which will make you burn through your neurotransmitters quicker. If you are a fast COMT, you are going to further burn through your dopamine and serotonin. I am a slow COMT, so I tend to hold on to serotonin and dopamine, so I would hypothesize TRT would work better for these types of guys from a genetic standpoint. The only way to find out is to take genetics test. If you are a fast COMT, you need to be supplementing with 5-HTP and mucuna pruriens. Another issue I believe effects men, candida overgrowth which will basically cause the body to not absorb hormones efficiently (CANDIDA ALBICANS AND ANTI-FUNGAL PROGRAM). If only we could just take testosterone and it would be the panacea, and while it has amazing benefits, its not a magic pill.

 

[Charliebizz]

I believe TRT increases COMT which will make you burn through your neurotransmitters quicker. If you are a fast COMT, you are going to further burn through your dopamine and serotonin. I am a slow COMT, so I tend to hold on to serotonin and dopamine, so I would hypothesize TRT would work better for these types of guys from a genetic standpoint. The only way to find out is to take genetics test. If you are a fast COMT, you need to be supplementing with 5-HTP and mucuna pruriens. Another issue I believe effects men, candida overgrowth which will basically cause the body to not absorb hormones efficiently (CANDIDA ALBICANS AND ANTI-FUNGAL PROGRAM). If only we could just take testosterone and it would be the panacea, and while it has amazing benefits, its not a magic pill.

Wow that’s very interesting. I wonder if that has to do with why I can tolerate trt a little better when I’m on ssri

 

[Appassionato]

I believe TRT increases COMT which will make you burn through your neurotransmitters quicker. If you are a fast COMT, you are going to further burn through your dopamine and serotonin. I am a slow COMT, so I tend to hold on to serotonin and dopamine, so I would hypothesize TRT would work better for these types of guys from a genetic standpoint. The only way to find out is to take genetics test. If you are a fast COMT, you need to be supplementing with 5-HTP and mucuna pruriens.

I've addressed this in another forum.
You have to have a look at the whole methylation process, not just one pathway, as they work all together synergically. It's the same thing as with the hormones.
For instance, even if you have a COMT upregulation, but a CBS upregulation too (like me) you will end up with even more anxiety adding 5-HTP in the mix, as it raises cortisol.

Also, having a down-regulated COMT (like me again) doesn't mean you are doing well in terms of dopamine and serotonine levels, as you could have a MAOA and VDR down-regulation (guess who?) leading to lower levels in the brain.

Genomic tests are quite complicated to interpret and I never met 2 doctors agreeing on something here, as we are still in early stages and 95% of the doctors don't have a clue of what they are talking about.

 

[KenLowT]

This is an interesting post. I have never seen men receive TRT and then suddenly have mood/mental issues. For me, myself, and I, TRT has done absolutely nothing to improve my libido which is why I started in the first place. However, during this TRT journey I realized that it was my low level anxiety that was probably the main factor in why my libido was non existent. Performance anxiety to be exact has been debilitating. TRT did nothing for me mentally, it may have eased anxiety a bit, but not overall. I realize this now because I started taking an antidepressant which has given me more confidence in bed and eased that constant tension I was feeling to perform. Anti depressants are known to be libido killers, but my libido was low when I wasn't on them as well and TRT did nothing for it. I believe the anxiety is the cause of all my issues and until I ruled out testosterone issues I would not have thought this. I'm still on TRT, but I pretty much know that I can't sustain this with no concrete evidence that it's actually helping me in the bedroom. Sure I feel a bit more energy, but nothing like consistently weight training does for me. I feel I would actually do better if I stopped TRT cold turkey, one less foreign chemical in my body. The only other effect that testorone replacement has given me is the need for more medication to combat my E2 from going high, and shoulder acne which I never had before.

If unlike me you are starting to have mental issues that you never had before then it could be a side effect of E2 getting out of control. If you already had anxiety or depressive feelings before starting TRT then it can either help if it's hormone related or not help you if its neurotransmitter related. My issue seemed to be not enough serotonin in the brain. I look forward to getting off this stuff soon, but I want to make sure the withdrawal symptoms are not horrible. When I got off HCG monotherapy I was stuck with ED for a few weeks.

 

[Vitamin_C]

I've addressed this in another forum.
You have to have a look at the whole methylation process, not just one pathway, as they work all together synergically. It's the same thing as with the hormones.
For instance, even if you have a COMT upregulation, but a CBS upregulation too (like me) you will end up with even more anxiety adding 5-HTP in the mix, as it raises cortisol.

Also, having a down-regulated COMT (like me again) doesn't mean you are doing well in terms of dopamine and serotonine levels, as you could have a MAOA and VDR down-regulation (guess who?) leading to lower levels in the brain.

Genomic tests are quite complicated to interpret and I never met 2 doctors agreeing on something here, as we are still in early stages and 95% of the doctors don't have a clue of what they are talking about.

It certainly is interesting and I attribute methylation to most peoples mystery issues with well being. For me, I am slow COMT and slow MAO, I've had issues with anxiety and worry, but never depression. My highs are also very high. It is VERY complicated and you're right, most allopathic doctors are absolutely clueless pertaining to genetics.

 

[Charliebizz]

It certainly is interesting and I attribute methylation to most peoples mystery issues with well being. For me, I am slow COMT and slow MAO, I've had issues with anxiety and worry, but never depression. My highs are also very high. It is VERY complicated and you're right, most allopathic doctors are absolutely clueless pertaining to genetics.

I’m very similar to you then only time I can say I’m depressed is if I really feel like crap physically.

 

[lemonflavor]

This is a great thread. For me, it's simply a matter of testosterone overstimulating me, or that's how it feels, to the point of it being unbearable. I would call it anxiety, because I've dealt with that almost all my life, but I'm not really that anxious in my head and never felt any anxiety whatsover about taking testosterone (for those who would assume that). Dr. Saya feels that it has to do with high(er) cortisol, which is the working proposition. I'd love to hear what he has to say on all of this if he's listening in and would want to wade into this difficult subject. I realize mine isn't quite the same as some of the others on this thread. I otherwise do get more energy and feel better mentally.

Things have changed a bit after about 4 1/2 months now. I'm undergoing TRT for the second time. I had to go from 90mg a week, to 70, and all the way down to below 50 or I'd be in the emergency room. I seem to be getting more used to it. Whether it's the supplements for cortisol, added morning exercise, and/or just the body adapting, I don't know. I'm starting to slowly raise the dose, and need to get blood work done so Dr. Saya can further advise. Even though my estradiol was only 31 with SHBG of 40 when I was at 77mg, because of the various symptoms I had, I'm still wondering if that's a factor too. Dr. Saya said that mine wouldn't be an easy case. I certainly never expected it to cure all of my ills, which is quite a bit. If I could just tolerate about 100mg I'd be very glad.

 

[Gman86]

This is a great thread. For me, it's simply a matter of testosterone overstimulating me, or that's how it feels, to the point of it being unbearable. I would call it anxiety, because I've dealt with that almost all my life, but I'm not really that anxious in my head and never felt any anxiety whatsover about taking testosterone (for those who would assume that). Dr. Saya feels that it has to do with high(er) cortisol, which is the working proposition. I'd love to hear what he has to say on all of this if he's listening in and would want to wade into this difficult subject. I realize mine isn't quite the same as some of the others on this thread. I otherwise do get more energy and feel better mentally.

Things have changed a bit after about 4 1/2 months now. I'm undergoing TRT for the second time. I had to go from 90mg a week, to 70, and all the way down to below 50 or I'd be in the emergency room. I seem to be getting more used to it. Whether it's the supplements for cortisol, added morning exercise, and/or just the body adapting, I don't know. I'm starting to slowly raise the dose, and need to get blood work done so Dr. Saya can further advise. Even though my estradiol was only 31 with SHBG of 40 when I was at 77mg, because of the various symptoms I had, I'm still wondering if that's a factor too. Dr. Saya said that mine wouldn't be an easy case. I certainly never expected it to cure all of my ills, which is quite a bit. If I could just tolerate about 100mg I'd be very glad.

What supplements for cortisol are your taking? And are your trying to decrease or increase cortisol?

 

[fifty]

I often feel a bit weird/anxious/worry-about-everything on trt. I think i have narrowed it down to the hcg. Even 150iu seems to get me. Feelings of being a bit overstimulated such that it makes sleep quality go down.

It has taken me 8 months to narrow this down. Only downside of dumping it is that without it my nuts get pretty soft/small within a week or two without it.