When you first started TRT

Thread starter #21
9 months of HCG/anastrozole. What was this for and do you now do TRT + that? No AI I'm assuming? Do you apply test 1x or 2 x per day? No water retention or pre gyno symptoms? No TRT flu? I'm interested in following your progress using the cream/ TS application and possibly going on it as well as a first timer.
My endo was hoping to try this before committing to (potentially) a lifetime of exogenous T, as I am 27 years old and otherwise quite healthy. But after 9 months, I was not seeing any results -- if anything, my symptoms had gotten worse.

And, having done my homework, I was convinced T would be at least part of the solution. It's early in the process -- I'm only about 1 month in -- but so far, I really believe I am headed in the right direction. Everything is getting better. Libido has gone from a 0 to a 5. And confidence is totally different (like, 3 to 8) -- which I didn't care about going into it, but has been a really nice side effect.

I'm currently not taking an AI, though I do have some on hand just in case we decide to re-add it later. I apply T cream 1x per day (A.M., trans-scrotally). No water retention or pre gyno symptoms that I've noticed.

I also don't think I've had the TRT flu. I did get sick for a couple days, but it's absolutely frigid here, and my wife has also been sick -- I think it was just a normal winter cold.

I'm having bloodwork completed next Friday. I'll circle back here with numbers when I get them!
 
Thread starter #22
In terms of any pros I miss from creams: It was nice never having to poke myself with needles. Sterile environment/skin was not a concern. International travel seemed less intimidating - regardless of what laws actually permit legally, I always felt like some bonehead in customs would not even notice the cream but might raise an eyebrow to a vial and syringes. Though despite my concerns I never had any issues with either. And I did notice that I’d more or less crash in the evening when using cream 1x/day...but in an odd way it was nice being tired at bedtime. That said, fewer nocturnal erections if penile health/erections are any concern.
This is a good summary of why I started with the cream. I travel a lot for work, and cream is just easier to pack. As @S1W noted, though, it can be annoying waiting for the cream to dry. And I can echo the point about crashing at night but it feeling good -- I enjoy that.
 
Thread starter #23
Would spreading the same dose over 2 applications per day make applying / absorption/ drying time much better since you're using half the product?

When the roundtable says "treat symptoms not numbers" does this mean simply giving a higher T dosage until you feel good and are symptom free? In other words, once you feel good and have no negative symptoms, you may discover your T is 1500 and E is 100, but if you feel good and are symptom free don't worry about it because numbers don't matter. What this suggests is that administering more T can overcome almost any other negative hormonal symptom.

To quote Churchill, "If you're going through hell, keep going."

Long term health aside (since Dr's are split on optimal health numbers and we're discussing only symptoms), what are your thoughts that higher and higher T dosages can eventually overcome most other negative hormonal symptoms and you will eventually feel good if you keep going up?
I think spreading the dose over 2 applications would actually be less convenient. You still need to wait for it to dry, and it impacts shower times. I personally work out in the morning, shower, then apply the cream. Then I walk around in a bathrobe for 10-15 minutes as it dries; my wife thinks it's hilarious. I don't shower again until the next day, too wary of washing off the T.

Yes -- that's pretty much what the roundtable means with that saying. It doesn't always mean more T, but it often does. They're saying, "don't be freaked out by a high TT if everything else feels on point." This appeals to me because my SHBG is so high (>80!) that it seems my TT has to be high (>1500) for me to have a decent free T and see symptoms resolve. I'm guessing the same is true for most high-SHBG guys, but many doctors will panic at a high TT.

With regard to the last part of your question: I agree that most men will eventually feel good if they keep going up in T dosage. But that is not always true, and it doesn't mean such an approach is optimal in terms of longevity. This is the delicate balance I and many others are trying to strike: What feels good today may not be best for your long-term health. But it's a decent indicator.
 
#24
I'm currently not taking an AI, though I do have some on hand just in case we decide to re-add it later.

Thanks for the response. Assuming you're not measuring E, is the AI strictly in case you feel gyno or excessive water weight? How is your current protocol going? Do you feel significantly better?
 
Thread starter #25
Thanks for the response. Assuming you're not measuring E, is the AI strictly in case you feel gyno or excessive water weight? How is your current protocol going? Do you feel significantly better?
I am measuring E, actually -- but yes, having an AI on-hand is like a worst-case scenario in case E side effects get out of control. After reading a lot on this forum, following the roundtable, etc., I've become convinced that in a normal TRT protocol, E should usually not be restricted. I plan to let mine go unless some crazy side effects pop up.

So far, I do feel significantly better! It's still early (4 weeks), but everything has improved -- especially libido and sense of confidence. I've read that the effects of TRT often take several months to fully take hold, so I'm excited by the prospect that things could get even better.
 
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