Tried many things but nothing has yet done it for me!

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billycane

New Member
Hello,

This is a rather long post so please bear with me.

I'm a 28yo male with a long time history of hypogonadism symptoms, but since I'm overweight I had thought that it all had to do with losing weight. 2 years before I got married I started to feel a heavy loss in libido and some ED. Sadly it has worsened with time and is taking a heavy toll on my marriage. Trying to look for answers I went to my mothers endo, who asked me to do some labs.

Results:

6/26/2018

Cortisol

9.41

5-25

Total Testosterone

257

262-1593

Free T4

1.24

1.76

  

TSH

1.81

0.4 - 4.000

FSH

3.43

1.55 - 9.74

Free Testosterone

11.48

9.1 - 32.20

LH

2.18

0.8 - 7.60



She seed that my numbers are low but she tells me that she doesn't want to get me on testosterone injections because I'm looking into conceiving in the near future. So she refers me to my urologist.

Note: Meanwhile I go to a friend of mine who is an MD, he tells me to get on test and hcg but I tell him I'd prefer to wait for the uro's diagnosis. He tells me to buy proviron to feel better in the meantime. I take it for a month but didn't feel much better. Only felt I was hitting the gym a little harder.

Uro sees the tests. During the checkup he tells me I have a varicocele, tells me to go and do a scan and a sperm check. I do have a varicocele but my sperm count and quality are pretty good.

Then he prescribes HCG Monotherapy. 10,000 IU every 15 days.

After reading this forum and checking online I figured this was a too high dose, I didn't take it. So looking for more input I went to a good friend of my father who is an endo expert in hormones.

He sees the lab results and then orders some more. he also told me that the uro was insane for prescribing that amount of HCG.

Results:

08/10/2018

Total Testosterone

254

262 - 1593

Total Estrogens

96.40 (40-115)

Free Testosterone

5.48

9.10 -32.20

SHBG

26.80

10 - 57



So he tells me I have a serious aromatase issue combined with my testes not producing testosterone. I did have serious gyno as a child which I had to get removed. So I believe him.

He then indicates 1mg Arimidex ED (!) and after 15 days begin Clomid 50mg ED.

The first days with the arimidex I felt great, my mood was extremely good, I felt happy and nothing got me sad, I'm having a rough time at work so It was amazing. But Libido was the same, still low.

After I added the clomid I feld like crap, completely depressed and even suicidal. I called the endo and he told me to stop taking it and only take the arimidex.

After a while I told him I wasn't feeling that much better so we did some more labs:

Note: I added estradiol myself to the indication because i was curious about it.
Note2: We don't have a sensitive test in my country
09/11/2018

Total Testosterone

496

262 - 1593

Total Estrogens

97

40 - 115

Estradiol

15.04

5.37 - 65.90

   


After seeing the results he only said my test levels are better but the aromatase is still harming e, he looked at the total estrogens and told me that will only get better when I lose weight.

I'm 6'3" 300lb. But I got married with 250lb and still felt like crap.

As of last week I stopped taking arimidex as I was not feeling the effects anymore. I went back to my friend who told me about the test + hcg and he told me we could do a TRT program but now my wife doesn't want to because she thinks it should be prescribed by an endo or a uro (she's an M.D)

So basically I don't know what to do right now. Has someone been in the same situation? What could you suggest? I really want to feel better and save my marriage.
 
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Systemlord

Member
Endocrinologists and urologists tend to be the least educated in sex hormones and therefore TRT, neither of these types are doctors are educated in sex hormone in residency and medical school.

Total estrogens is a useless test and provides no diagnostic value, none of the more experience hormone specialists even considers total estrogens. When it comes to TRT neither endocrinologists and urologists will be up to speed.

You cannot go by the estrogen testing in your country, it is invalid and will overestimate.

HCG is used together with a TRT protocol when fertility is a concern, adding FSH to a TRT protocol greatly improves fertility when HCG isn't enough on it's own. I'm 73 pounds overweight and have high levels of aromatase enzymes, which leads to me having high estrogen problems until such time significant weight is lost.

Your doctor checked Total T and bioavailable Free T, but when it came to thyroid testing didn't bother checking the ONLY free thyroid hormone Free T3 which is where the rubber meets the road. We see this a lot and it's a mistake not checking it.

TSH stimulated the thyroid gland, produces T4-->Free T4-->Free T3 which is the final result and drives metabolic rates and speeds up every cell in your body and it wasn't even tested. Free T4 can be at a good level while Free T3 can be very low, nothing matters more than Free T3.

You will find the majority of members here were forced to go private to seek competent care for TRT that rarely exists inside of managed health care (sick care) where corners are cut to save insurance companies money at the expense of missing important tests that could otherwise provide valuable information.

SHBG will dictate injection frequency, given your SHBG level, 50-60mg twice weekly injections is best if lean, but more frequent smaller injections can help to lower estrogen when overweight.

I inject everyday to lower estrogen until I can lose weight.
 
Last edited:

blackebob

Member
I dont know why you would wait to see the hormone expert as the last doctor you saw. SL is correct, all the endos I saw were clueless. Clomid did not work for me. Lots of great advice here, take it.
 

billycane

New Member
Endocrinologists and urologists tend to be the least educated in sex hormones and therefore TRT, neither of these types are doctors are educated in sex hormone in residency and medical school.

Total estrogens is a useless test and provides no diagnostic value, none of the more experience hormone specialists even considers total estrogens. When it comes to TRT neither endocrinologists and urologists will be up to speed.

You cannot go by the estrogen testing in your country, it is invalid and will overestimate.

HCG is used together with a TRT protocol when fertility is a concern, adding FSH to a TRT protocol greatly improves fertility when HCG isn't enough on it's own. I'm 73 pounds overweight and have high levels of aromatase enzymes, which leads to me having high estrogen problems until such time significant weight is lost.

Your doctor checked Total T and bioavailable Free T, but when it came to thyroid testing didn't bother checking the ONLY free thyroid hormone Free T3 which is where the rubber meets the road. We see this a lot and it's a mistake not checking it.

TSH stimulated the thyroid gland, produces T4-->Free T4-->Free T3 which is the final result and drives metabolic rates and speeds up every cell in your body and it wasn't even tested. Free T4 can be at a good level while Free T3 can be very low, nothing matters more than Free T3.

You will find the majority of members here were forced to go private to seek competent care for TRT that rarely exists inside of managed health care (sick care) where corners are cut to save insurance companies money at the expense of missing important tests that could otherwise provide valuable information.

SHBG will dictate injection frequency, given your SHBG level, 50-60mg twice weekly injections is best if lean, but more frequent smaller injections can help to lower estrogen when overweight.

I inject everyday to lower estrogen until I can lose weight.

Thanks systemlord.

Do you think I should test TSH, Free T4 and Free T3? It's really cheap to get those tested here and I have a lab right next door from work. I could go anytime.
 

billycane

New Member
The doctor friend of mine who has experience with TRT and steroids in general because of bodybuilder prepping. Is recommending me Nebido, because of the less frequent need of injections and he tells me that he has had great results with his patients.

I've browsed online about Nebido and seen some conflicting opinions, ala Clomid. Works for some, doesn't work for others.

Cost of Nebido is ~80USD here.

Is there a general consensus?
 

Systemlord

Member
Nebido is the least favorable option for TRT along side gels, you just can't keep levels steady enough. You always start out high and end up low, sustanon and cypionate/ethanate don't have those limitations.

You won't find anyone here offering Nebido over cypionate/ethanate here. Once you inject Nebido, if it's too much for you then you must ride it out for several weeks. It makes optimising TRT difficult because you are having thing happen at a snail's pace do to the slow esters in Nebido.

Doctors like Nebido because they can charge for administering the injection.
 
Last edited:

Gman86

Member
I personally think it’s a no brainer what you should do. Go on HCG monotherapy, starting at around 2,000iu’s per week. See if you’re secondary hypogonadal and if HCG is enough to raise your testosterone. If it is, it would be a good option due to it preserving fertility more so than test + HCG together. You will almost definitely have to use an aromatase inhibitor with HCG mono.

If HCG mono doesn’t stimulate your testosterone enough, I would personally go on test + HCG. That’s just what I would personally do though, with conceiving being a priority for you and everything.

I was personally 27 when I started replacing my hormones. I’m 32 now. I’ve been through it all. HCG mono, Clomid mono, and now on test + HCG together.
 

billycane

New Member
I personally think it’s a no brainer what you should do. Go on HCG monotherapy, starting at around 2,000iu’s per week. See if you’re secondary hypogonadal and if HCG is enough to raise your testosterone. If it is, it would be a good option due to it preserving fertility more so than test + HCG together. You will almost definitely have to use an aromatase inhibitor with HCG mono.

If HCG mono doesn’t stimulate your testosterone enough, I would personally go on test + HCG. That’s just what I would personally do though, with conceiving being a priority for you and everything.

I was personally 27 when I started replacing my hormones. I’m 32 now. I’ve been through it all. HCG mono, Clomid mono, and now on test + HCG together.


What does of clomid mono where you taking?
 

Gman86

Member
What does of clomid mono where you taking?

50mg everyday. It got my total testosterone to around 1500. Felt horrible on it though. Had extremely dark thoughts. Thought about death a lot. Not necesserily suicide, just thought about death and dark stuff. It also gave me very bad depression, which I haven’t had before or since. I attached some of my labs while on it, hopefully it loads properly.
 

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billycane

New Member
50mg everyday. It got my total testosterone to around 1500. Felt horrible on it though. Had extremely dark thoughts. Thought about death a lot. Not necesserily suicide, just thought about death and dark stuff. It also gave me very bad depression, which I haven’t had before or since. I attached some of my labs while on it, hopefully it loads properly.

Thanks mate. Maybe this was because you were on such a high dose that it shot your E2 through the roof.

I've decided to try clomid again since I want stay as fertile as possible for now.

I'll begin with 12.5EOD. Labs on 3 weeks and titrate depending on symptoms and labs.

Quick question for those more knowledgeable than me: If I cant get a ultrasensitive E2 test here. Can I use the regultar E2 as guidance?

Regards,
 
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