Testicle atrophy even with HCG.

Thread starter #1
I am on a 50mg of test cyp M/W/F. I also take 300 IU of HCG M/W/F. The vial was reconstituted 12,000IU. This is week 3 of my protocol.

I have anastrozole but I have not taken it, as I was under direction to only take it if I experience high e2 symptoms, I have not.

I have not had my first follow up blood work yet, but it's due soon. My clinic is defy, they're great.

But yeah, the twins have definitely shrunk significantly but everything works fantastic, sex drive is immense etc etc.


Currently the wife and I have 0 plans to have kids, so I would be ok not taking HCG.

I know HCG is mainly to prevent testicular atrophy/fertility but it might also help boost test some because your body would still be sending signals to produce test, is that correct?

Could an alternative be to ditch HCG, and discuss a testosterone dosage increase? I guess it all depends on the bloods, but I was going to bring up dropping the hcg since I was experiencing atrophy anyhow. I wanted to ask other fellow TRT patients first.

Thanks for your time, please excuse me if I explained some stuff wrong. Definitely still trying to read up on everything to fully grasp everything.
 

Vince

Moderator
#4
How long have you been on a TRT protocol. If you have testicular atrophy from TRT, you may have to increase the amount of HCG. I inject 500iu of HCG twice a week but it's different for everyone. Some members don't even use HCG.
 
#5
I am on a 50mg of test cyp M/W/F. I also take 300 IU of HCG M/W/F. The vial was reconstituted 12,000IU. This is week 3 of my protocol.

I have anastrozole but I have not taken it, as I was under direction to only take it if I experience high e2 symptoms, I have not.

I have not had my first follow up blood work yet, but it's due soon. My clinic is defy, they're great.

But yeah, the twins have definitely shrunk significantly but everything works fantastic, sex drive is immense etc etc.


Currently the wife and I have 0 plans to have kids, so I would be ok not taking HCG.

I know HCG is mainly to prevent testicular atrophy/fertility but it might also help boost test some because your body would still be sending signals to produce test, is that correct?

Could an alternative be to ditch HCG, and discuss a testosterone dosage increase? I guess it all depends on the bloods, but I was going to bring up dropping the hcg since I was experiencing atrophy anyhow. I wanted to ask other fellow TRT patients first.

Thanks for your time, please excuse me if I explained some stuff wrong. Definitely still trying to read up on everything to fully grasp everything.



You are only on 3rd week of your protocol and your body is still producing endogenous testosterone it can take between 2-6 weeks for shutdown of the hpga and depending on dose of testosterone injected weekly (higher doses cause quicker suppression of endogenous levels) and your are also injecting exogenous testosterone hence what you are experiencing regarding intense libido will level off eventually as you are experiencing what one would call the honeymoon period.

I am thinking you have lower shbg due to the M/W/F injection protocol and 50mg (3 times weekly) may very well put your testosterone levels into the high-normal physiological range.....it will take 6 weeks for your blood levels to stabilize and once blood work is done you will see how 150mg/week (50mg 3 times/week) protocol effects your total t/free t and e2 among other critical health markers.

I would just keep using the hcg until you have bloods done as you just started your protocol.

I feel it is best to start trt without the use of hcg or an aromatase inhibitor (unless pre-trt blood work shows elevated e2 and one is experiencing high e2 symptoms).....this would allow one to truly see how said testosterone dose effects ones total t, free t and e2 levels!

You stated "could an alternative be to ditch HCG, and discuss a testosterone dose INCREASE".....you are only 3 weeks in what is the reasoning for suggesting this?
 
Thread starter #6
How long have you been on a TRT protocol. If you have testicular atrophy from TRT, you may have to increase the amount of HCG. I inject 500iu of HCG twice a week but it's different for everyone. Some members don't even use HCG.
this is the end of week 3. However atrophy happened super fast.
 
#7
this is the end of week 3. However atrophy happened super fast.
I believe that the atrophy normally occurs over a much longer period of time. Three weeks, that might be a record. Can't image that. Was it painful? Was it all of a sudden, like over night, or you just noticed it at the three week mark?
 

Vince

Moderator
#8
I believe that the atrophy normally occurs over a much longer period of time. Three weeks, that might be a record. Can't image that. Was it painful? Was it all of a sudden, like over night, or you just noticed it at the three week mark?
I would have to agree, three weeks seems too fast.
 
Thread starter #9
I believe that the atrophy normally occurs over a much longer period of time. Three weeks, that might be a record. Can't image that. Was it painful? Was it all of a sudden, like over night, or you just noticed it at the three week mark?
I noticed it and the wife noticed. Definite shrinkage. I can feel a difference as well
 
#10
I wasn't on HCG for years but I definitely had atrophy. But it took years for me to notice. It was a slow process and one day I looked at "the boys" and thought "huh, you guys have lost some weight". I am on HCG now and really haven't noticed any improvement in the atrophy.
 
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#11
When my E was really high my sack was rather shrunken or drawn up tight(er) to the body. But I concur with those that say it's much too early to say anything at all and inspite of you and wife thinking you see it I'd call it psychosomatic or all in your head at this point in time.
 
#12
Yeah it can happen when hcg raises your E the shutdown can be higher than before for some people, and the boys can shrink up more. Hcg just does not always work that well for some people, or it may be the source. That was me on Hcg too.
 
#14
I did a lot of experimenting with HCG. The half-life of HCG is 24-36 hours. My original protocol was 500iu E3.5D. Because of the half-life, I decided to try 150iu ED. I then tried 250iu EOD, then tried 350iu MWF, then finally settled on 400iu MWF.

With 150iu ED, my testicles shrank fairly significantly and had significantly reduced ejaculate volume.
With 250iu EOD , no change.
With 350iu MWF, they recovered a bit but did not reach full size.
With 400iu MWF they fully recovered and ejaculate volume returned to normal.

It appears (for me) that a dose below 400 is not enough to maintain testicular size.

I have lowered my T dose as the 1200iu/week of HCG has increased my trough T beyond my comfortable target and increased my E2.

I kept a very detailed log of my size, ejaculate volume, and how I felt (along with bloods).
 
#15
I did a lot of experimenting with HCG. The half-life of HCG is 24-36 hours. My original protocol was 500iu E3.5D. Because of the half-life, I decided to try 150iu ED. I then tried 250iu EOD, then tried 350iu MWF, then finally settled on 400iu MWF.

With 150iu ED, my testicles shrank fairly significantly and had significantly reduced ejaculate volume.
With 250iu EOD , no change.
With 350iu MWF, they recovered a bit but did not reach full size.
With 400iu MWF they fully recovered and ejaculate volume returned to normal.

It appears (for me) that a dose below 400 is not enough to maintain testicular size.

I have lowered my T dose as the 1200iu/week of HCG has increased my trough T beyond my comfortable target and increased my E2.

I kept a very detailed log of my size, ejaculate volume, and how I felt (along with bloods).
God I love when people test things out intelligently like this. You're hard work and dedication to ball size and load volume does not go unappreciated lol. Jokes aside, this is awesome info. Everyone is obviously different, but I too tried to go to ED HCG injections and noticed some atrophy compared to EOD, while on the same dose. Not sure about load size. I've read multiple studies that say the leydig cells on the testicles need time to resensitize after an HCG injection to get max stimulation from a specific dose, so I think it has something to do with that. But it's confusing, because Dr. Crisler says he has good results with ED injections. Anyways, what brand of HCG do you use Gator?
 
#16
I did a lot of experimenting with HCG. The half-life of HCG is 24-36 hours. My original protocol was 500iu E3.5D. Because of the half-life, I decided to try 150iu ED. I then tried 250iu EOD, then tried 350iu MWF, then finally settled on 400iu MWF.

With 150iu ED, my testicles shrank fairly significantly and had significantly reduced ejaculate volume.
With 250iu EOD , no change.
With 350iu MWF, they recovered a bit but did not reach full size.
With 400iu MWF they fully recovered and ejaculate volume returned to normal.

It appears (for me) that a dose below 400 is not enough to maintain testicular size.

I have lowered my T dose as the 1200iu/week of HCG has increased my trough T beyond my comfortable target and increased my E2.

I kept a very detailed log of my size, ejaculate volume, and how I felt (along with bloods).
If I'm understanding you right. You injected 500 IU of HCG every three and a half days, like what I'm doing. If you feel that 400 IU of HCG MWF works better for you. If that's true I may try it also, I'm having my consultation on Friday and I planning on bringing it up.
 
#17
I get my HCG from Hallandale Pharmacy.

I know some people laugh at the load discussions, but it's important to me (just feels better during ejaculation). I've found that Pygeum and Lecithin help as well.
 
#18
If I'm understanding you right. You injected 500 IU of HCG every three and a half days, like what I'm doing. If you feel that 400 IU of HCG MWF works better for you. If that's true I may try it also, I'm having my consultation on Friday and I planning on bringing it up.
Yes, 400iu MWF seems to be the sweet spot for me. That extra dose seems to make a different (possibly the half-life).
 

Nelson Vergel

Founder, ExcelMale.com
#19
I have said this several times: Doses under 500 IU are needed for 70% of men on HCG to respond while on TRT ( for HCG monotherapy at least 1500 IU 3 times per week). They have to reach that peak. Study data available on frequency shows that 3 times per week of HCG plus TRT was able to normalize sperm count on 70% of men. The 30% that did not respond well were older and on TRT the longest prior to adding HCG. Data from Lipshultz group at Baylor College of Medicine here in Houston.

I would give myself a booster shot of 1000 IU of HCG and then continue with 500 IU twice per week two days after that booster shot. If in 3 weeks there is no normalization of my testicular size, I would stop HCG and carry on with TRT only.
 
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#20
I get my HCG from Hallandale Pharmacy.

I know some people laugh at the load discussions, but it's important to me (just feels better during ejaculation). I've found that Pygeum and Lecithin help as well.
Thanks for the reply about which brand you use. And ya some people don't care about load size or testicle size, which I understand. But for me testicle size definitely matters, and I completely agree, I also feel like orgasms are better when loads are larger.
 
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