Switching to cream from injections

[TheDude]

Anyone had any luck switching from injections to cream? My low SHBG has made it very difficult to get dialed in with injections. Wondering if switching to a daily cream might benefit me. Thanks!

 

[Systemlord]

Daily injections is the recommended protocol for low SHBG guys having trouble on TRT, what were your precious protocols and pre-TRT labs?

Creams may not be much different as your ability to bind androgens is compromised do to low SHBG and levels will swing on creams probably more so than with injections. Keeping levels steady is more important for low SHBG guys.

My SHBG is 22 and feel very little unless I'm injecting every 2 days.

 

[Vince Carter]

I dont think that we've yet had a low SHBG guy come off inj entirely for this delivery method. Though I'd like to try it...16mg/D and I still aromatase a high degree and need a lot of AI.

 

[TheDude]

Daily injections is the recommended protocol for low SHBG guys having trouble on TRT, what were your precious protocols and pre-TRT labs?

Creams may not be much different as your ability to bind androgens is compromised do to low SHBG and levels will swing on creams probably more so than with injections. Keeping levels steady is more important for low SHBG guys.

My SHBG is 22 and feel very little unless I'm injecting every 2 days.

SHBG is 14. I’ve been on EOD injections of 40mg and .125 mg Anastrozole. Also take 500IU HCG every 4 days. Been on this for over a year.

Labs have been pretty steady at 750 Test and 25-30 E2.

I’m just not feeling any benefit from the TRT. I’ve heard that cream gives the most stable levels so thought it might help.

 

[eli]

I am about to start daily scrotum application very soon. Sometimes next week. I am a low SHBG guy, sometimes single digits. I don't know what dose to start with, I'm thinking 150mg/ml (3 clicks) and see how I feel

The reason why transdermals suck is because they don't absorb well, but if Scrotal application is absorbed well, I'd say that option blows injections out of the water. It's not really hard to rub 1ml of cream on the scrotum daily, much easier than injecting yourself. Hell, I can even do twice a day, all you need is a bit of privacy and your T cream top-clicker which you can put in your pocket. Process takes less than 5 minutes, grab the penis and pull it up, use the actual topi-click T container to rub the cream on your scrotum, you don't even have to touch the stuff

Transdermals would be the closest method to how our body naturally produces T, high T in the morning, lower T at nights.

 

[Systemlord]

SHBG is 14. I’ve been on EOD injections of 40mg and .125 mg Anastrozole. Also take 500IU HCG every 4 days. Been on this for over a year.

Labs have been pretty steady at 750 Test and 25-30 E2.

I’m just not feeling any benefit from the TRT. I’ve heard that cream gives the most stable levels so thought it might help.

I can easily see your problem, you have high testosterone and estrogen is towards the higher end of the range and your SHBG is very low.

The estrogen towards the top of the range may look innocent, but hiding underneath the surface must be insanely high free estrogen, this is most likely why you feel no benefit. There isn't a low SHBG guy on this board that wouldn't have symptoms with very low SHBG and estrogen on the higher end.

One of the reasons a low SHBG guys tend to have anxiety is because of high free testosterone and therefore high for estrogen. You're free hormones are in excess.

 

[eli]

I can easily see your problem, you have high testosterone and estrogen is towards the higher end of the range and your SHBG is very low.

The estrogen towards the top of the range may look innocent, but hiding underneath the surface must be insanely high free estrogen, this is most likely why you feel no benefit. There isn't a low SHBG guy on this board that wouldn't have symptoms with very low SHBG and estrogen on the higher end.

One of the reasons a low SHBG guys tend to have anxiety is because of high free testosterone and therefore high for estrogen. You're free hormones are in excess.

The only setback to low SHBG is exactly that. Dialing E2. Otherwise everything else is okay. The range to dial in E2 is very tight too, so it becomes annoying AF. One thing that makes high e2 irrelevant for me is a high DHT level, that's why I think scrotal application will help me out. I Can't wait to start

 

[Simon7]

Transdermals pose a problem for low SHBG guys. I have SHBG of 16. I started out TRT with T gel applied daily. When I had blood tests 12 hours after applying the gel my Total T level would be around 800. However when I running blood tests 22 hours after applying the gel my Total T would drop to 180.

The late Dr. Crisler said that this was because the T absorbed via the skin goes very quickly to the bloodstream with low SHBG guys like me it's flushed quickly via the urine. He recommended me to switch to bi weekly SUBQ injections, stating the the T is absorbed slower via the SUBQ tissue. I've been doing that for 2 years now and this protocol enabled me to sustain steady and healthy levels of T.

 

[Vince Carter]

I did my best, too date, with my trough Sens E2 in the single digits. Free E on the lower half of the lab range, IIRC .18 on a <0.45 scale. SHBG was 12 recently.
Most all my body acne subsided, I can use regular body wash now and take one shower per day. Penile sensitivity was improved, and orgasm was remarkably improved.

 

[eli]

Transdermals pose a problem for low SHBG guys. I have SHBG of 16. I started out TRT with T gel applied daily. When I had blood tests 12 hours after applying the gel my Total T level would be around 800. However when I running blood tests 22 hours after applying the gel my Total T would drop to 180.

The later Dr. Crisler said that this was because the T absorbed via the skin goes very quickly to the bloodstream with low SHBG guys like me it's flushed quickly via the urine. He recommended me to switch to bi weekly SUBQ injections, stating the the T is absorbed slower via the SUBQ tissue. I've been doing that for 2 years now and this protocol enabled me to sustain a steady and healthy levels of T.

How much were you taking? And how did you feel?
You could have done 2x a day

 

[Simon7]

I was applying 75-100mg T gel daily. I didn't feel good and thought that the problem was psychological until I got tested 22 hours post application and realized that my levels were constantly fluctuating up and down like a mad seesaw.

Twice a day application was not practical for me as I need to ensure the T isn't transferred to my spouse and kids by touch.

 

[eli]

I was applying 75-100mg T gel daily. I didn't feel good and thought that the problem was psychological until I got tested 22 hours post injection and saw that my levels were constantly fluctuating up and down like a mad seesaw.

Twice a day application is not practical as you don't want the spouse and children touching you and having the T transferred to them.

Like I mentioned, twice a day scrotal application is very practical. Just gotta shower before sex if you've applied 3-4 hours before. I'd take that over daily injections anyday

 

[Vince Carter]

Twice a day application was not practical for me as I need to ensure the T isn't transferred to my spouse and kids by touch.

Why are your kids touching your balls?

 

[Simon7]

@eli, T creams are not available where I live and gels aren't recommended for scrotal application. I applied the T gel on my shoulders, upper arms and abdomen. I doubt that even if T creams were available that I would want to drive my DHT so high as often happens with scrotal applications. I like my hair

I inject T SUBQ twice a week. It's not a big deal at all. I prefer injections to dealing daily with the sticky gel.

 

[TheDude]

I did my best, too date, with my trough Sens E2 in the single digits. Free E on the lower half of the lab range, IIRC .18 on a <0.45 scale. SHBG was 12 recently.
Most all my body acne subsided, I can use regular body wash now and take one shower per day. Penile sensitivity was improved, and orgasm was remarkably improved.

I need to try to get my E2 much lower then. It’ll need to be a combination of lowering Test dosage and increasing Anastrozole I’m sure.

What does your protocol look like? What about your labs?

 

[Vince Carter]

16mg/D Cyp (Ive been using Enanthate the last two weeks).
--I base my dose off my trough Free T and nothing else. This puts my trough at the
lab range but not over.
200iu HCG once per week
12.5mg Exemestane EOD ( aromatase A LOT and this is what it takes to control it)
no DHEA
no Preg

 

[AndyP]

I went the other way, from gel to injections. I found gels to be an unstable nightmare with monthly measured tt levels wildly swinging over 500 points up and down. The absorption is just not consistent enough to fine tune. I’m also low shgb.
With injections I now have a stable base to work from. Dialing doses of T and AI just need tuning in.
Personally I would stay with injections but try ED dosing, higher or lower amounts, careful E2 management and a full thyroid panel (including rT3) before I dumped injections for gel.

 

[Cataceous]

I went the other way, from gel to injections. I found gels to be an unstable nightmare with monthly measured tt levels wildly swinging over 500 points up and down. ...

This is my experience also.

 

[Vince Carter]

Most of us started out on gels/topicals.

 

[TheDude]

16mg/D Cyp (Ive been using Enanthate the last two weeks).
--I base my dose off my trough Free T and nothing else. This puts my trough at the
lab range but not over.
200iu HCG once per week
12.5mg Exemestane EOD ( aromatase A LOT and this is what it takes to control it)
no DHEA
no Preg

Sounds like you and I are pretty similar. I’m going to focus on getting my E2 numbers down and see how I feel. Likely start by reducing dosage of T from 40mg/EOD to 36mg/EOD.