Shitty libido ed fatigue help me! Labs posted

[digdeep94]

Out of curiosity I put your numbers into a free estradiol calculator. It came up with 0.44 pg/mL, which is towards the low end of the normal range. I'm assuming you had symptoms in order to start the AI in the first place? How long was that after starting TRT?

It wasn’t until many months into my regiment and honestly it was only slightly above range as I recall. My doc thought we should use adex, which came with awful sides for me and it was just way too strong even in small doses. Switch to Aromasin as it should be milder and was sort of having the same issues. So I put 12.5 mg Aromasin in one ML vodka and started my dosing a few drop a day which I guess this is dropping it to low as well. My opinion is my dart prematurely had me start an ai because if you think of Nelsons T/E ratio I probably never needs it to begin with.

 

[Cataceous]

Yes, I seem to recall Nelson's optimal T/E2 range tops out around 25, and you're sitting at 47. Another interesting rule of thumb floating around is to aim for estradiol in pg/mL to be close to SHBG in nmol/L.

 

[digdeep94]

So what i

Yes, I seem to recall Nelson's optimal T/E2 range tops out around 25, and you're sitting at 47. Another interesting rule of thumb floating around is to aim for estradiol in pg/mL to be close to SHBG in nmol/L.

So with that said my e2 should be substantially higher!?

 

[digdeep94]

Yes, I seem to recall Nelson's optimal T/E2 range tops out around 25, and you're sitting at 47. Another interesting rule of thumb floating around is to aim for estradiol in pg/mL to be close to SHBG in nmol/L.

I thought the ratio T/E was 14/20, like you take your total divide by 20 and that’s where your e2 should be?? Which come out to about 40pg/ml

 

[Cataceous]

You're right, it looks as though Nelson's ratio range tops out at 20, not 25. In any case, by the standard measures you'd be justified in trying higher levels of estradiol. Probably best to go slowly; you don't want to jump from too low to too high without noticing.

 

[fifty]

So if my T is 1500 and shbg is 65-70 then I should be ~70 e2?

 

[digdeep94]

So if my T is 1500 and shbg is 65-70 then I should be ~70 e2?

If we’re going off ratios which seems to be the best way although some do work well at a lower target e2 of 22-30 I’m not one of them obviously. If you do 1500 divided by 20 you get 75 so yes it sounds about right. Like mines 800 5days after inj take 800 divided by 20 you get e2 of 40. Also my shbg is 46 Which would makes sense why I feel like shit and Dick is broke at 20 which would be the “ideal e2”

 

[Cataceous]

Of course TT of 1,500 ng/dL would be overkill, sending free T over 30 ng/dL. Probably no need to go over 1,000, which puts free T around 20 ng/dL. But in the end the subjective results matter more than the numbers.

 

[MensHealth]

Hello all!

Been lurking around here awhile studying, now my current protocol has been as follows

50mg test cyp MWF
Made my own aromasin dropper with 1ml of vodka to 12.5 mg arom because even a quarter pill had me feeling like a wet paper bag and just mentally bad! I take 1-2 drops on M an F. I have shitty/spotty erections no/low libido if I wait to take a shot for a few days I noticed I feel better look leaner and have ok libido and decent eq.

Labs
(CBC) I had donated blood a week prior to test did a power red (double red) at Red Cross
WBC- 5.2 range 3.4-10.8 x10e3/ul
RBC- 4.62 range 4.14-5.8 x10e6/ul
Hemoglobin- 14 range 13-17.7 g/dl
Hematocrit- 41 range 37.5-51

(CMP)
Glucose- 75 range 65-99 mg/dl
BUN- 11 range 6-20 mg-dl
Creatinine- 1.05 range .76-1.27 mg/dl
bun/Creatinine ratio- 10 range 9-20
Sodium- 144 range 134-144 mmol/L
Potassium- 4.9 range 3.5-5.2 mmol/L
Chloride- 104 range 96-106 mmol/L
Carbon Dioxide Total- 26 range 20-29 mmol/L
Calcium- 9.4 range 8.7-10.2 mg/dl
Protein total- 6.9 range 6-8.5 g/dl
Albumin- 4.7 range 3.5-5.5 g/dl
Globulin total- 2.2 range 1.5-4.5 g/dl
A/G Ratio- 2.1 range 1.2-2.2
Bilirubin- .3 range 0-1.2 mg/dl
Alkaline Phosphatase- 59 range 39-117 IU/L
AST- 19 range 0-44
ALT- 19 range 0-44

(Lipid panel)
Cholesterol Total- 132 range 100-199 mg/dl
Triglycerides- 80 range 0-149
HDL- 45 range >39 mg/dl
LDL- 71 range 0-99
VLDL- 16 range 5-40 mg/dl

(Thyroid Panel w/TSH)
TSH- 1.640 range .450-4.5 uIU/ml
T4- 6.3 range 4.5-12 if/dl
T3 Uptake- 27 range 24-39 %
Free Thyroxine Index- 1.7 range 1.2-4.9

(Testosterone Free/Total equili)
Testosterone, Serum- 790 range 264-916 ng/dl (mind you my last shot was 50mg on Fri and took test the following Tuesday without taking shot on mon or wed morning(until after blood draw)
Testosterone, Free- 12.17 range 5-21 ng/dl
% Free T- 1.54% range 1.5-4.2

(PSA)
1.1 range 0-4 ng/dl

(IGF-1)
232- range 115-355 ng/ml

(Estradiol Sensitive)
20.6 range 8-35 pg/ml

(SHBG)
46.6 range 16.5-55.9 nmol/L

Thanks for any help!
I’d love to hear your thoughts Nelson Vergel as your highly respected.

I would stop messing with your Estradiol for now. Especially, a homemade recipe. Bottoming out Estradiol is the probably the main reason we see ED from TRT. Although, based on reading your thread I'm not sure your ED is coming from your hormones. I think it is coming from your Nitric Oxide levels. You should supplement that and see what happens.

I don't see any reason for a blood dump. 1 unit of blood on average drops your Hemoglobin 1 pt and your hematocrit 3 pts.

 

[digdeep94]

I would stop messing with your Estradiol for now. Especially, a homemade recipe. Bottoming out Estradiol is the probably the main reason we see ED from TRT. Although, based on reading your thread I'm not sure your ED is coming from your hormones. I think it is coming from your Nitric Oxide levels. You should supplement that and see what happens.

I don't see any reason for a blood dump. 1 unit of blood on average drops your Hemoglobin 1 pt and your hematocrit 3 pts.

What makes you say nitric oxide levels is the prob here? As in estrogen is a vasodilator and helps promote N.O. So if low e2 then lowered nitricoxide meaning it is hormonal. There’s a huge difference in vascularity between me having estrogen and thinking I’ve gone to low or in case of these labs was def low on e2 and my veins just looked tiny.

 

[MensHealth]

What makes you say nitric oxide levels is the prob here? As in estrogen is a vasodilator and helps promote N.O. So if low e2 then lowered nitricoxide meaning it is hormonal. There’s a huge difference in vascularity between me having estrogen and thinking I’ve gone to low or in case of these labs was def low on e2 and my veins just looked tiny.

Sometimes I'm not sure I'm following you all the way. I think you are bottoming out your estrogen and you could have low nitric oxide in conjunction. That is why I said stop the homemade remedy and pick up a nitric oxide booster.

 

[digdeep94]

Sometimes I'm not sure I'm following you all the way. I think you are bottoming out your estrogen and you could have low nitric oxide in conjunction. That is why I said stop the homemade remedy and pick up a nitric oxide booster.

I see hey man I took quick acting arginine pretty good stuff got a nice erection bud I’ll stick to it and let e2 bounce back

 

[jhperez81]

I’m rocking a 84 pg/ml Estradiol with 2.04 pg/ml free Estradiol and feel pretty good. No libido or erection issues so I agree you can probably go higher with your Estradiol and see if it helps.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Where is your DHT value? The most important value besides free testosterone involved in libido.

ED Blood Test Panel

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Yes, I seem to recall Nelson's optimal T/E2 range tops out around 25, and you're sitting at 47. Another interesting rule of thumb floating around is to aim for estradiol in pg/mL to be close to SHBG in nmol/L.

I never said this.

If E2 is 0.3 percent of total T, then

100/0.3= 333.33 or T/E= 33 (T is in nanograms per dl and E2 is in picograms per mL)

We have very limited data on T/E with the use of sensitive E2 test. But so far the data is hinting at ratios above 12. We don't know what is the highest ratio before low estradiol symptoms show up, but I presume ratios above 60 may be a problem. Everything in the hormone displays an inverted U shape when it comes to benefits vs risks.

 

[MensHealth]

I never said this.

If E2 is 0.3 percent of total T, then

100/0.3= 333.33 or T/E= 33 (T is in nanograms per dl and E2 is in picograms per mL)

We have very limited data on T/E with the use of sensitive E2 test. But so far the data is hinting at ratios above 12. We don't know what is the highest ratio before low estradiol symptoms show up, but I presume ratios above 60 may be a problem. Everything in the hormone displays an inverted U shape when it comes to benefits vs risks.

Where is your original post about the ideal T:E ratio? I'm having a hard time finding it. This is very talked about discussion in our clinic and would like additional perspectives. Thanks

 

[Nelson Vergel]

There are a few when you google

Testosterone to Estradiol Ratio excelmale.com - Google Search

 

[YBWV]

Where is your original post about the ideal T:E ratio? I'm having a hard time finding it. This is very talked about discussion in our clinic and would like additional perspectives. Thanks

That's interesting that you're talking about the T:E2 ratio in your clinic as we've been discussing it again in the last few days here on Excelmale so your findings would add greatly to the discussion.

I note that T:E2 is used elsewhere in the diagnosis and management of various morbidities however my conjecture is that in the complaints that the OP of this thread raises (libido, ed, fatigue) T:E2 is actually a bit of a red herring. I believe that it's the DHT:E2 ratio that matters most.

In the modulation of sex hormones T:E2 could be seen as a sort of de facto measurement of DHT:E2 as if a patient reported relief of symptoms at a T:E2 ratio of 25:1, and had 5a-r conversion of 10% of TT, then DHT:T2 would be 2.5:1.

We know that DHT and E2, as 2 metabolites of T, have separate and vital roles in overall sexual function, so it would seem instructive to know what ratios might work best at adequate, physiological hormone levels.

My own n=1 experience is that I find great function with a a DHT:E2 ratio of between 3 and 4:1. Several other members have indicated similar findings. Of course far too few to be of any statistical use.

I can't find that it's an area that has been studied or even much mentioned so it would be great to know if any of the above correlates with your own clinical experience.

 

[digdeep94]

Where is your DHT value? The most important value besides free testosterone involved in libido.

ED Blood Test Panel

I have not taken a DHT test Nelson but can get one ordered if warranted. I know this is outside of trt but I used proviron and it made things worse. Proviron is DHT in a pill.

 

[digdeep94]

I never said this.

If E2 is 0.3 percent of total T, then

100/0.3= 333.33 or T/E= 33 (T is in nanograms per dl and E2 is in picograms per mL)

We have very limited data on T/E with the use of sensitive E2 test. But so far the data is hinting at ratios above 12. We don't know what is the highest ratio before low estradiol symptoms show up, but I presume ratios above 60 may be a problem. Everything in the hormone displays an inverted U shape when it comes to benefits vs risks.

So how can I get my E2 up?? Since it seems to be low e2, although I get this crash after I take a shot of my cyp like all symptoms get worse for like 48-72hrs feelings of anxiety brain fog lack of energy and libido non existent like I don’t want sex at all what could this be? Could Larger dose once weekly to lower shbg and raise e2 possibly?
TT 790 ng/dl range 264-916 ng/dl
E2 20 pg/ml range 8-35 pg/ml
FT 12 ng/dl range 5 - 21 ng/dl
SHBG 46.6 nmol/L range 16.5 - 55.9