I just posted those results that you were referencing
So half of your sensitive results are suspect. And wow, you must have a small fortune invested in free estradiol tests! It's proving to be a valuable contribution to the community...
So, you’re saying the standard is more efficient, looks like your chart shows bigger discrepancy.. interesting
He just has awesome insurance. I had the same back in the day but am now on a far inferior hsa. I envy gman
Haha quite the opposite. To date I’ve spent $0 dollars on free E2 tests. Luckily my insurance covers my labs 100%.
And that’s really nice to hear. Since I’m one of the few, if not only, people that get their labs covered 100%, and can get labs done pretty much whenever I want (thanks to Defy), I have personally taken it upon myself to do as much research on a bunch of these subjects, in order to help out the community, and hopefully progress TRT forward in my own little way.
I’ve personally tested things like the differences between the standard E2 and sensitive E2 tests, the differences between measured free E2 and calculated free E2, whether or not 1mg of anastrozole is comparable to 25mg of exemestane, whether exemestane lowers SHBG, and just a bunch of things lab related.
The
The crazy part is the insurance I have is cheap Obamacare insurance. My job’s was too expensive, so I applied through the state, and got accepted. Only pay around $93/ month through the health connector, and it literally covers everything! Labs, my exemestane. I picked up NDT last week, and even though it didn’t cover it 100%, it went from $83 to $25. So if anyone has crappy insurance through their job, try opting out of it and seeing if insurance through the state will be cheaper.
The crazy part is the insurance I have is cheap Obamacare insurance. My job’s was too expensive, so I applied through the state, and got accepted. Only pay around $93/ month through the health connector, and it literally covers everything! Labs, my exemestane. I picked up NDT last week, and even though it didn’t cover it 100%, it went from $83 to $25. So if anyone has crappy insurance through their job, try opting out of it and seeing if insurance through the state will be cheaper.
So, in your opinion.... when I started trt a normal endo didn’t want to treat me... According to their standard test I was in the low 20s for e2 and my test was at 314...
Went to a reputable clinic with those numbers and prescribed 50mg 2x a week test cyp with 1/4 anastrozle with each injection.. had labs done at labcorp with sensitive test at 6 weeks and get an 8.5.. worse case senerio that 8.5 is maybe wrong by 50%? I am possibly an AI over responder?? But your stats show, taking one type of E2 lab may not be sufficient because of error..
Should I wait out the next 4 weeks and do labs then? (I have cut out AI and upped test to 60mg injections) or go test all the E2 tests now to make sure I am adjusting appropriately
madman
Super Moderator
As was stated in your other thread your hormones are in flux as you just increased your T dose 2 weeks ago.....levels need to stabilize before you can truly see where your TT, FT and e2 levels sit.
Anytime one increase/decrease T dose.....lab work should be done at 6 weeks.
Out of the 8 different labs I posted, only 1 out of the 8 times was there an error between the sensitive E2 test and standard E2 test. It was on the 7-9-18 labs. My sens E2 was wrong, I believe. So for me, it’s rare that there is much of a difference between the standard and sens E2 test. Usually they are very similar.
Basically, I think your E2 is most likely correct. The other reasons I think it is probably correct is the fact that your dose is on the lower end, and most likely doesn’t require an ai. So taking an ai while only taking 100mg of test per week can absolutely yield an E2 of 8.5 at trough. I’ve taken a 1/4 tab of exemestane every 3 days while taking around 140mg of test and 1000iu’s of HCG per week, and my E2 came back at 10 on the sens test, and 15 on the standard E2 test.
You’re on about the same ai protocol, but are taking much less testosterone. So makes sense that your E2 would be even lower than mine was. Obviously everyone is different, but overall, I would imagine that your E2 of 8.5 isn’t a mistake. Just my opinion though.
I think dropping the ai, and upping your dose to 120mg per week is a good move. I would just wait 6 weeks to get labs. Just to make sure everything is at steady state by the time you draw labs.
Yes, I'd just wait the few weeks and then see how things are.
Thanks for the reassurance, like stated before i will run all the E2 labs to get a window into my e2 situations. 8.5 doesn’t feel awesome. It’s like I am not even on trt.. lol
Roger that...
8.5 is really, really low.
The level of anxiety and panic you describe is quite similar to what I've experienced as well. Please don't listen to anyone who says "it's in your head". No, no and no.
It is definitely a reaction to an AI not to mention pretty low E2 to begin with will make you miserable as well. I can completely sympathize and understand when you say you'd rather go through a drug withdrawal than crashed E2. I have gone through a lot of "unpleasant" things in my life; crashed E2 is by far one of the worst experiences. Took about a month to stop feeling like I'm going to die every sing day and waking up with my heart beating at over 100 bpm, in a puddle of sweat.
Why would any reasonable doctor prescribe AI when your E2 is at 20? This is borderline negligence. Or just lack of knowledge/stupidity.
The level of anxiety and panic you describe is quite similar to what I've experienced as well. Please don't listen to anyone who says "it's in your head". No, no and no.
It is definitely a reaction to an AI not to mention pretty low E2 to begin with will make you miserable as well. I can completely sympathize and understand when you say you'd rather go through a drug withdrawal than crashed E2. I have gone through a lot of "unpleasant" things in my life; crashed E2 is by far one of the worst experiences. Took about a month to stop feeling like I'm going to die every sing day and waking up with my heart beating at over 100 bpm, in a puddle of sweat.
Why would any reasonable doctor prescribe AI when your E2 is at 20? This is borderline negligence. Or just lack of knowledge/stupidity.
He had treated me in the past and I was actually on more AI at that same test dose, so we started even more conservatively than my previous protocol. It’s been 2 weeks since my labs, haven’t taken an AI since, i have another appt in a month, just feel like I am in a bit of a fog, tired, but better than I was a couple weeks ago.
I apologize for hijacking this thread, but can you tell me how I can calculate my sensitive E2? I am having a lot of high E2 symptoms.
My doctor ordered the standard.
ESTRADIOL 47.84 pg/mL. 7.02-49.06
Bio-Reference-NJ1
ALBUMIN 4.8. g/dL 3.5-5.2
TESTOSTERONE, TOT.,S. 799.3 High ng/dL 193.0-740.0
SEX HORM.BIND.GLOB. 25. nmol/L 10-57
TESTOSTERONE, BIOAVAIL. 511.0 High ng/dL. 72.0-460.0
lowTengineer
Member
What are you using to calculate free estradiol?
DragonBits
Well-Known Member
I often use Gaba (gamma-aminobutyric acid) supplement in bulk form, it can reduce anxiety, for sure it reduces blood pressure for me, like dropping BP from 125/84 > 108/76 and helps induce sleepiness. But I take 3-3.5 grams which is very high, just take a teaspoon so I don't know exactly how much.
I had recently been taking a supplement that had the affect of raising my SHBG by 60%, shbg went from 41 > 66. Naturally, both FT and E2 declined to 9 pg/ml and 12.2 pg/ml, (while my Total T was ~630). Lowish for FT/E2 but still in range.
What the most noticeable negative effect was, I couldn't stay asleep getting up nearly every 2 hours no matter what I tried. I think the lowish E2 was the cause. Gaba helped but only for a short time, like 3 hours. I also take a dash of l-theanine, it is supposed to help for anxiety and sleep, but I don't have as obvious a reaction.
I know for sure it was these hormones because I tried rubbing on some T cream and bingo, I slept very well. No idea of what my T / E2 levels were after the cream, but they were higher.
What is notable is before TRT my E2 was below 5 pg/ml while my T was low, BUT I didn't have such a big problem sleeping. Of course, my Total T was 350 without TRT, and my SHBG was around 41.
Point being, I don't think you can just look at E2 in isolation, (or even the T/E2 ratio) say it's in range and you shouldn't have a problem, it's way more complicated than that. (One for instance, there are many SHBG variants while not common have different affinities for T and E2.)
You can increase your T dose or try Gaba / l-theanine supplements or both. The supplements if they work should work quickly.
Cool spreadsheet linked to and discussed here: Spreadsheet for Calculating Free T & E2
Your free E2 comes out to 1.2 pg/mL, at the higher end of the range (~0.3-1.5). You can make it more accurate if you have other parameters, such as DHT.
Spreadsheet for Calculating Free T & E2
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