Blackhawk's journey with TRT

[FeelingLost]

Dang Blackhawk that sounds bad. I have been dropping my dose from 150/wk, 900HCG, .125AI 3 times a week. I am now at ~107-110/wk, 600 HCG 1 to 2 AI as needed.
All I have noticed was a lose of libido. I just don't get horny. My strength in the gym and on the bike are the same. I continue to build strength you can't see it as much as its the amount of weight I can move around.

 

[Blackhawk]

Raving bitch again today.
This has to stop, I am sick of it
Here's no bloat day a few days ago and was doing OK mood wise:

And today bloated along with being emotionally unstable much like PMS:

 

[lowe2sucks]

It has been estimated that aromatase inhibitor users suffer from mood disorders, mood swings, being emotionally unstable and occasionally have symptoms of melancholy, or even depression. It is also known that methandrostenolone/methandienone (D-bol) users can become addicted to the euphoric effect it has upon the users psychology. This is due to the fact that estrogen give you the feeling of well being. Lack of estrogen may affect mood and emotional stability in general. Menopausal women seem to have mood swings and be rather unstable to their emotional status. As a result, a similar brain chemistry would affect a male bodybuilder.
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?2309-Role-of-Estradiol-in-Men-and-Its-Management/page2

 

[FeelingLost]

Holy shit man, that is what I look like if I binge eat a whole pizza washing it all down with about 3 beers.

Were you able to get an AI script?

 

[Blackhawk]

No AI as of yet. Labs Tuesday, then I'll be consulting with my PCP and Defy.

 

[FeelingLost]

No AI as of yet. Labs Tuesday, then I'll be consulting with my PCP and Defy.

You know how long thats going to take. My offer still stands.

 

[Roguejim]

It looks like this roller coaster has been going on since last August. Just the kind of post that scares the crap out of me! Pretty sure I would never want to begin TRT if I had to go through a year of emotional and physical torture like Blackhawk has. Good luck.

 

[Systemlord]

I have the same problem with no AI, bloated in stomach area. I seem to have bloat days in-between protocol changes. Once I reach a stable state bloat becomes constant.

 

[Blackhawk]

It looks like this roller coaster has been going on since last August. Just the kind of post that scares the crap out of me! Pretty sure I would never want to begin TRT if I had to go through a year of emotional and physical torture like Blackhawk has. Good luck.

I never "wanted" to begin TRT, but when you're health is failing and your total T level is mid 200s and free T is 3.1 what are you going to do?

It's actually been better since last August than the 8 months before on really bad protocol.

During this odyssey with Defy I have had short periods of feeling well to a degree that I have not otherwise had in years. That alone is enough motivation to keep with it, but yes it is torture to be teased like that but not be able to reach a steady state with a protocol that works full time.

 

[Roguejim]

I never "wanted" to begin TRT, but when you're health is failing and your total T level is mid 200s and free T is 3.1 what are you going to do?

It's actually been better since last August than the 8 months before on really bad protocol.

During this odyssey with Defy I have had short periods of feeling well to a degree that I have not otherwise had in years. That alone is enough motivation to keep with it, but yes it is torture to be teased like that but not be able to reach a steady state with a protocol that works full time.

Do you feel you will eventually reach a steady state without the bad emotional and physical swings?

 

[FeelingLost]

It looks like this roller coaster has been going on since last August. Just the kind of post that scares the crap out of me! Pretty sure I would never want to begin TRT if I had to go through a year of emotional and physical torture like Blackhawk has. Good luck.

Do you feel you will eventually reach a steady state without the bad emotional and physical swings?

It is a roller coaster Jim for about the first year. There are so many things to get balanced and they all take time. Our bodies are so slow to adapt to hormonal changes.

You do your first pre TRT bloods
You are given your first protocol usually T cyp injections with HCG
You wait 6wks to 3 months and do bloods again. Your E2 will most likely be too high so you are given and AI prescription and maybe your T cyp amount is changed.
You wait 6 wks to 3 months and do bloods. Now your HCT has gotten too high and you have to donate blood. Because if your HCT goes above 54-55 all TRT stops.
So you donate blood and wait 2 wks and do another blood test. Now your T cyp protocol is adjusted again as well as your AI dose based on that blood test.
And you wait another 6wks to 3 months and draw blood or if your last blood work was good and you were feeling better the doc might let you run for 6 months if not you are back on the 6wk to 3 month cycle until you stabilize.

Now throw in thyroid panels and all that mess. Pooling reverse T3 too high, if you donate blood to often your ferritin crashed which messup your thryoid function and your TRT quits working.

I think you get the idea. When they say this is not a sprint its a marathon they mean it.

 

[Blackhawk]

Do you feel you will eventually reach a steady state without the bad emotional and physical swings?

I think it is possible.

I believe this process is about learning the parameters and effects of what works and doesn't for each individual. There are MANY variables and it takes due diligence to work through each change and its effects. Finding actual causation and appropriate treatment of "side effects" for me is the entire project right now. Some people are luckier and get it right quickly.

 

[Roguejim]

It is a roller coaster Jim for about the first year. There are so many things to get balanced and they all take time. Our bodies are so slow to adapt to hormonal changes.

You do your first pre TRT bloods
You are given your first protocol usually T cyp injections with HCG
You wait 6wks to 3 months and do bloods again. Your E2 will most likely be too high so you are given and AI prescription and maybe your T cyp amount is changed.
You wait 6 wks to 3 months and do bloods. Now your HCT has gotten too high and you have to donate blood. Because if your HCT goes above 54-55 all TRT stops.
So you donate blood and wait 2 wks and do another blood test. Now your T cyp protocol is adjusted again as well as your AI dose based on that blood test.
And you wait another 6wks to 3 months and draw blood or if your last blood work was good and you were feeling better the doc might let you run for 6 months if not you are back on the 6wk to 3 month cycle until you stabilize.

Now throw in thyroid panels and all that mess. Pooling reverse T3 too high, if you donate blood to often your ferritin crashed which messup your thryoid function and your TRT quits working.

I think you get the idea. When they say this is not a sprint its a marathon they mean it.

Thanks. At least with a marathon there's a definite finish line which is attainable.

 

[Blackhawk]

Had my blood draw yesterday and I'm really looking forward to results and making changes. I am continuing the downward slide, now having a hard time completing my daily walk, plus crashing, napping every afternoon. Luckily i am sleeping well nightly. I'm able to track higher anxiety level not being carried away with it, fully aware but unable to reduce it. I am pretty certain this has reached my adrenals now. Exercise is making feel neurologically fatigued and shaky and I have no physical recovery. It feels like when I was catabolic from statins but I am not losing weight. At this point I am physically and mentally almost back to feeling as bad as prior to working with Defy.

I have reviewed my history fully and glad I kept this record to track things. If my current symptoms are due to the TRT, decreasing dosage too far, resulting hormone levels out of whack and not something else, I am going to make changes pronto as soon as I have my lab results.

If T and free T are lower, I will up my dose to the previous level. If HCT is too high I will pull ferritin and consider a blood draw. If E2 looks high I will go to EOD both T and HCG to reduce peaks and troughs and request anastrazole through Defy.

If E2 is high but comes into better control after treating, but I remain symptomatic, I will consider increasing DHEA back to 25mg/day.

If after making these kinds of adjustments I continue to crash mid afternoon I will try to increase NDT by adding 1/2 gr mid day, and add free T3 and T4 to next bloodwork. I'd prefer to consult first and potentially ad some T4 since my T3 is high relative to T4.

I am afraid this has become bad enough that I am going to make changes before consultation with Dr Saya. I can't wait another month or 8 weeks or whatever to consult before trying something reasonable to feel better.

I intend to do this with Defy knowing and seeking their support. I'll send an email with my adjustments and request the first possible appt. with whoever is available. Dr Saya if you see this I hope these things seem reasonable and rational and would appreciate confirmation or other feedback. Email will be forthcoming as soon as I have the lab results.

I also have an appt with my PCP who ordered all the labs this time, so will be interested in his feedback, and a bona fide physical exam. The one I had at an occupational clinic last year to get in defy's door was joke!

 

[ratbag]

I just went thru something similar Blackhawk. I had been deteriorating for 7-8 months and the fibromyalgia was getting bad. Lots of pain and cognitive decline. I was thinking as you are that something must be wrong... I finally got labs and my TT had fell from 800 to 560. With corresponding amount to free T as well. So I immediately increased my dose of testosterone and it's taken 5 weeks but I feel a huge improvement. I'm hoping to feel normal again by 6 weeks. It truly is amazing that it really does take 40 days for a dose change to stabilise. Hope you get that sorted out soon!

 

[HealthMan]

Had my blood draw yesterday and I'm really looking forward to results and making changes. I am continuing the downward slide, now having a hard time completing my daily walk, plus crashing, napping every afternoon. Luckily i am sleeping well nightly. I'm able to track higher anxiety level not being carried away with it, fully aware but unable to reduce it. I am pretty certain this has reached my adrenals now. Exercise is making feel neurologically fatigued and shaky and I have no physical recovery. It feels like when I was catabolic from statins but I am not losing weight. At this point I am physically and mentally almost back to feeling as bad as prior to working with Defy.

I have reviewed my history fully and glad I kept this record to track things. If my current symptoms are due to the TRT, decreasing dosage too far, resulting hormone levels out of whack and not something else, I am going to make changes pronto as soon as I have my lab results.

If T and free T are lower, I will up my dose to the previous level. If HCT is too high I will pull ferritin and consider a blood draw. If E2 looks high I will go to EOD both T and HCG to reduce peaks and troughs and request anastrazole through Defy.

If E2 is high but comes into better control after treating, but I remain symptomatic, I will consider increasing DHEA back to 25mg/day.

If after making these kinds of adjustments I continue to crash mid afternoon I will try to increase NDT by adding 1/2 gr mid day, and add free T3 and T4 to next bloodwork. I'd prefer to consult first and potentially ad some T4 since my T3 is high relative to T4.

I am afraid this has become bad enough that I am going to make changes before consultation with Dr Saya. I can't wait another month or 8 weeks or whatever to consult before trying something reasonable to feel better.

I intend to do this with Defy knowing and seeking their support. I'll send an email with my adjustments and request the first possible appt. with whoever is available. Dr Saya if you see this I hope these things seem reasonable and rational and would appreciate confirmation or other feedback. Email will be forthcoming as soon as I have the lab results.

I also have an appt with my PCP who ordered all the labs this time, so will be interested in his feedback, and a bona fide physical exam. The one I had at an occupational clinic last year to get in defy's door was joke!

Where was your HCT during last labs? For some reason I can’t see the labs you posted. There is some studies that observe high HCT with high estradiol so maybe controlling your estradiol might help with HCT

 

[Blackhawk]

Where was your HCT during last labs? For some reason I can't see the labs you posted. There is some studies that observe high HCT with high estradiol so maybe controlling your estradiol might help with HCT

I wonder why the forum lost the attachments.

May 5 HCT 51. March 21 HCT 52.5, so lowering dose was apparently effective. With the life span of RBC, certainly possible/probable that it is even lower now.

 

[FeelingLost]

I wonder why the forum lost the attachments.

May 5 HCT 51. March 21 HCT 52.5, so lowering dose was apparently effective. With the life span of RBC, certainly possible/probable that it is even lower now.

I can see your May 5th blood work on post #100. Was their additional bloods posted after that?

 

[Blackhawk]

Server glitch i guess, they weren't visible yesterday evening.

FWIW, I went ahead and started EOD T cyp and HCG today.

 

[Blackhawk]

Hallelujah!

PSA is DOWN!!! And free PSA% has improved significantly. This is NOT indicative of cancer, but of some kind of prostatitis! Such a relief!


Glad, but could be more optimal:

HCT is in range though I'd still like it a couple points lower.

Total T is up there, but Free T is lower than desired. With how I have been feeling I wish the TT was lower and free T higher. I have gone to EOD at same dosage, so maybe that will just keep things in narrower range and free T a little higher.

E2 is lower, but I am still moody as Hell. I want to see what happens for me below 30-35. I am going to ask for anastrazole, to start on very low dosage.

Still worrisome: absolute lymphs have climbed even higher. I'll consult with my PCP about this Friday. Dr Saya wrote a referral for hematology, we'll see...