1st Follow Up Labs, High Estradiol, Feel Fine

[jhperez81]

Got my lab results back after being on TRT for 90 days. Protocol is:
80mg Test. Cyp E3.5D
I started with HCG 500i/u with injection but stopped because wife got pregnant and I didn't feel I needed it.
I was also prescribed anastrozole .125mg to take with each injection but didn't start taking it until roughly a month into TRT. After approximately 5 doses I had labs ran for Estradiol and it came back at 57 pg/ml. I then began taking .25mg with each injection for about 3 weeks until I ran out of anastrozole. Labs were taken Monday morning before injection with my last dose of Testosterone and anastrozole being the previous Thursday. Estradiol came back at 84 pg/ml.

Honestly I feel better without an AI. No issues with libido or erections. My Estradiol before TRT was at 32 pg/ml and as far as I know it's never been below that so I might be one of the guys that feel better running a higher Estradiol numbers. I would probably have to take a huge dose of AI to get my number down to the 30's which I have no reason at this time to do.

I'm guessing the doc may lower my T dosage though since I'm out of range on the Free test, what are your thoughts? Also I did have the Free Estradiol Test ran in case someone is collecting these values for a database or something.

 

[Vince Carter]

That would be really remarkable if you run a Free E like that and have no complaints of high E. Really though...no water retention? Night sweats? body acne?
What is your SHBG in case I over looked it?

 

[jhperez81]

Yeah no symptoms so far. It may be that I’m so used to having high estrogen that my body had adapted. Before TRT ShBg was 48 and Estradiol was 32. Now my ShBg is 41.

Keep in mind I’m still overweight sitting at 225 lbs at 5’10” so maybe my higher body fat has something to do with me not having any symptoms.

 

[jhperez81]

I mean is 2 pg/ml really that high of a number considering free T is at 258 pg/ml?

 

[Starplex]

I'm just guessing here, but I think it comes back to a couple things. One the T:E ratio, since your Total T >1000, your SHBG is high, and as you mentioned, I think the body tends to adapt to having a higher E value over time.

I'm in similar conditions, where my E runs high, but so does my T and I have higher SHBG and have no 'E' symptoms. Very few fit into this window.

If possible I would recommend keeping your protocol as is w/o dropping your T to a lower value. I noticed when I attempted to lower my dosage, I started feeling like crap. Use the higher 'T' to your advantage and start eating clean and get on a good exercise program to shed that extra weight. You will only feel better and better from there. (Stay away from that AI if you don't need it).

 

[jhperez81]

Just an update, I had my follow up consultation today and the Dr. likes all my numbers but he is a little concerned with the Estradiol. He wants to keep me on the same dosage of T, 80mg E3.5d and take the .125mg anastrozole with each injection then recheck my Estradiol in 4 weeks. I’m okay with that for two reasons. One, i need more time to drop weight and I don’t want to lower my T dosage. Two, anastrozole doesn’t give me any side effects and im not an over responder. I’m not afraid of crashing my Estradiol because in my case I don’t think it’s possible. I took .5mg anastrozole for 3 weeks and my Estradiol went from 57 to 84.

My plan is to really try to lose some body fat and then I think I’ll be okay without an AI. I think a good number for Estradiol for me is somewhere between 45 - 60.

My labs were drawn on 01/08 and I haven’t had anastrozole since then. I do think I am beginning to feel the effects of high estradiol finally. So in my case high estradiol is causing my chest to be red and feel warm and also my cheeks are red. I also started to get a few pimples on my arm but other than that I feel fine.

 

[fifty]

Recent events have made me think maybe someone was right about controlling estradiol.

Take more fish oil.

 

[jhperez81]

I hear ya. I do take Bio Schwartz fish oil daily, 3 capsules. Maybe I should try a different brand or krill oil?

 

[fifty]

I take 4 caps of carlson super omega-3 per day and my hdl is in the 60s typically.

 

[jhperez81]

Thanks, I’ll look it up.

 

[n2turbo2]

The doctor i am seeing, doesn't give out a Ai. My Estradiol is 120 i feel fine. I dropped the hcg to, just on test. Saves me money to, i subq 150 of test a week and total is 1000 and free is 27 SHBG is 74.3

 

[Vince Carter]

My Estradiol is 120 i feel fine.

SHBG is 74.3

See that right there is probably why you could do well with E @ 120. We know SHBG binds to T, but also binds to Estrogen...a lot that 120 Estrogen is bound up and not free to work in your body.

 

[jhperez81]

I believe it. I wonder what your Free Estradiol would be. Mine is 2.04 pg/ml and the reference range is <=.45 pg/ml. I’m not trying to get below the reference range but I think somewhere between.45 - 1.5 will be the sweet spot. I’ll post labs in 4 weeks and see where i’m at and how i’m feeling.

 

[jhperez81]

See that right there is probably why you could do well with E @ 120. We know SHBG binds to T, but also binds to Estrogen...a lot that 120 Estrogen is bound up and not free to work in your body.

Yeah my Dr said several times well your at 84 E2 but with your SHBG you’re probably really sitting around 40. In response I said well my Free E2 is 2.04 so I’m not sure if he meant my 84 E2 would feel like a 40 E2 in someone with lower SHBG or if he meant that he thinks my Free E2 would be around 40.

I hope more people start posting Free Estradiol results so I can gather some data on how people feel at certain ranges.

 

[jhperez81]

Just an update on this. After consultation with Dr. I began dosing .25mg anastrozole with injection every 3.5 days with labs due in a month. Test. dose did not change. I got my lab results after a month and I was pretty shocked! I'm thinking either a lab error or maybe a strong batch of test. from empower? The only changes made after consult was the AI and upped my dose of Armour Thyroid from 2 grains to 3 grains. Do you think it's a lab error or I was also thinking maybe my HPT axis isn't completely shut down?

Test: 1162 -> 2401
Free T: 258 -> 744
E2 sensitive: 84 -> 102

By the way I feel fine. I really don't like the AI since I feel like crap when taking it. I haven't taken an AI for my last two injections after labs were drawn and I'll continue hitting it hard in the gym and see if any Estrogen symptoms become unmanageable before going back to AI. I could lower dose but don't want to based on questionable lab results.

 

[Cataceous]

The doctor i am seeing, doesn't give out a Ai. My Estradiol is 120 i feel fine. I dropped the hcg to, just on test. Saves me money to, i subq 150 of test a week and total is 1000 and free is 27 SHBG is 74.3

Your calculated free estradiol is around 2.3 pg/mL, even higher than the OP's. From a statistical standpoint this is likely higher than that of all but one of every few million normal men.

 

[jhperez81]

I actually had free E2 checked as well. Just waiting on the results. I should get them today. If the lab results are accurate then either the AI doubled my Test. or the armour thyroid. I did have FT3 checked as well and the additional 1 grain caused FT3 to go from 3.8 ->4.9. Also had DHT checked for the first time and it was 152 ng/dl (16 - 79).

 

[Sean Mosher]

How are you feeling with those numbers compared with the test results before?
Hard to imagine that your Total and Free T doubled...........?

 

[jhperez81]

How are you feeling with those numbers compared with the test results before?
Hard to imagine that your Total and Free T doubled...........?

I feel pretty good. I lift weights 6 days a week. Started my gym membership last month and have gotten much stronger. I'm thinking it's probably just the normal strength gains you get when you start lifting for the first time, well for me the first time in about 12 years!

If you look at the ratio of TT/E2 these latest results are at 22 whereas my last labs were at 14. At the 14 ratio I do have a really red chest and develop lots of acne on my arms opposite my elbow. When I began the AI the acne went away after a couple of weeks and redness was less noticeable. I was taking .25mg every 3.5d. I do feel crappy for 3 days after I take AI.

The purpose of taking the AI was mainly to see how it affected my E2 after a month of use. If these latest results are accurate it doesn't appear that the AI has lowered my E2 but has increased my Testosterone thus improving my ratio. If I start breaking out on my arms again I will probably let it ride a couple of weeks and if there is still no improvement I will make the decision to start AI again or lower my dose. I need this bodyfat to come down more!