Warning about frequent blood donations used to decrease hematocrit.

NOTE: Be very careful if you donate blood more than every 3 months to decrease hematocrit. This could happen to you.

In the U.S., 70 percent of the blood supply comes from repeat donors. Limiting their giving may hamper a system that already suffers shortages. The Mayo Clinic predicts a 10 percent drop in its supply from its restrictions on donors after finding that one-third had iron deficiency.

“We want to make sure we don’t have a group of people walking around being iron deficient,” said Manish Gandhi, the medical director of the Mayo Clinic’s blood donation center. “Blood donation in the U.S. is an altruistic thing. We need to focus on what we should be doing to protect these wonderful donors.”

Almost 10 million Americans annually give blood. Still, that’s only 5 percent of those eligible, according to a national survey conducted by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. The agency’s REDS-III study, under way since 2011, is examining donors’ iron levels as part of an effort to improve blood banking and transfusion practices. Boosting the number of donors may be key to a healthier blood banking system.

Nelson,

I thought if your H&H is elevated...you would not be iron deficient? I ask, b/c I donate every 56 days, and my H&H is at the upper range always.

Jay

The blood bank I visit uses that simple finger-prick hemoglobin test which is a lousy way to screen I think. Before i did my homework I thought I was fine because my hemoglobin levels were always in the middle of the range when they tested. I always have normal hemoglobin levels even with low ferritin/iron. I got burned by this and am slowly rebuilding my iron/ferritin levels.

I C....croaker, should I skip the 56 days and go with 90 days to be safe?

Jay said:

I C....croaker, should I skip the 56 days and go with 90 days to be safe?

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You can always pull your iron and ferritin levels on you own through Discountedlabs.com or one of the other self-testing services. Do it a time or two, get a handle on where you are on day 50, or so, and let that guide you with more assurance. H and H can be followed at the same time to give you a bit more peace of mind.

Low Iron and still able to donate.....

Jay said:

Nelson,

I thought if your H&H is elevated...you would not be iron deficient? I ask, b/c I donate every 56 days, and my H&H is at the upper range always.

Jay

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I had extremely low iron stores after a few years of donating. My primary doctor diagnosed me with iron deficient anemia - and I felt horrible. I was referred to a hematologist and the iron levels came back up. Eventually, the hematologist indicated that it was better for me to not take supplemental iron because of the raise in hematocrit I had between donations, and that is how it now stands. I actually feel better after I give blood, even with low iron levels being chronic - my blood pressure goes down and I feel a bit more tranquil for a few days - not tired, just a bit tranquil.

This is my first go around on TRT. I’ve only had about 4 shots. After my 1st shot, my T levels went from 210 to over 1300. My first blood test showed my Hematocrit level to be 51.9%. I changed my timing of the shots to twice a week with lower dosage levels and felt great for about a week. Starting last Friday I began to feel sluggish. I went to work on Saturday and felt awful the entire game as I’m a basketball referee. On my flight home, it seemed to get worse. On Sunday morning I went to have my blood drawn for the first time. I immediately felt a change in my body and the fog seemed to clear. Not sure how this will effect me going forward but I would like to know if this is a common occurrence for first time users of TRT? Also, does the drawing of blood typically reduce the hematocrit % that quickly. I really enjoy reading your site. Very helpful information and good science.

I've donated at least 8 times in a row (if not more) every 58 days. I've ran labs each and every time and my iron levels and Ferritin have been dropping and recovering as usual. I wanted to get my Hematocrit and Hemoglobin levels "as normal" like... normal as in a person who's not on TRT.... and I have achieved that. It took a long time.

What’s your ferritin level ?

Nelson Vergel said:

What’s your ferritin level ?

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Typically 1-2 days before donation my levels are...

Iron 133 mcg (Standard Range 65 - 175 mcg)

Ferritin 217 ng (Standard Range 14 - 338 ng)


The Day After donating 1 pint of blood

Iron 63 mcg (Standard Range 65 - 175 mcg)

Ferritin 53 ng (Standard Range 14 - 338 ng)


For example... If I donate Blood on a Monday... I typically return to the gym on Thursday. I don't feel 100% until about 8-9 days after donation.

@Stpfan

Thank you so much for the great post.

Stpfan said:

Typically 1-2 days before donation my levels are...

Iron 133 mcg (Standard Range 65 - 175 mcg)

Ferritin 217 ng (Standard Range 14 - 338 ng)


The Day After donating 1 pint of blood

Iron 63 mcg (Standard Range 65 - 175 mcg)

Ferritin 53 ng (Standard Range 14 - 338 ng)


For example... If I donate Blood on a Monday... I typically return to the gym on Thursday. I don't feel 100% until about 8-9 days after donation.

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WOW! That is impressive. Thank you for your post.

This may have been posted here already, worth a read. Are we overtreating elevated Hb/Hct from HRT? Europe PMC

Nelson Vergel said:

@Stpfan

Thank you so much for the great post.

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You're welcome! I'm always trying to help fellow posters with accurate data here.

I honestly don't know if my body is responding well with those numbers? My hematologist told me he sees nothing wrong with donating every 58 days if my body allows it. He never specified there was an Iron or Ferritin issue.

Just before my last donation which was July 26, 2021 the Red Cross measured the Hemoglobin at 15.6 So the blood has definitely thinned out back to normal. My highest Hemoglobin on record just before donation was 19.2 on January 8, 2020. I'm looking over my data now. Since that 19.2 reading... I've donated 10 consecutive times (every 58 days). So in all essence if your body can handle it... the hemoglobin will eventually go back to normal.

I don't plan on doing this "every 58 days" donation thing anymore. I just wanted to see how the body reacts... and if it's even possible to get the blood thinned out (back to normal) while on TRT. It took a very long time... but it is possible. I still have ED issues just like before.... blood pressure is good at around 120.

Mark Saur said:

WOW! That is impressive. Thank you for your post.

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You're welcome!

The last time I had my iron and ferritin tested was June 7th this year:



I've always donated from time to time over the years.

Nelson, have you seen any studies for the effects of red meat on ferritin? People on the carnivore diet can eat several pounds of beef each day.

I have not seen data.

I asked ChatGPT and this is what the AI said:


After reviewing the provided web search results, there is limited information regarding the effects of high consumption of red meat on hemoglobin, red blood cells, and hematocrit. However, there is evidence suggesting that high consumption of red meat may have negative effects on cardiovascular health and increase the risk of certain diseases.

Red meat has been linked to an increased risk of cardiovascular disease, including heart attacks and strokes [1]. A recent study found that eating two servings per week of red meat or processed meat was associated with a 3% to 7% higher risk of cardiovascular disease, including heart attack and stroke, and a 3% higher risk of death from all causes [2]. Additionally, an extra serving of processed red meat raised the risk of mortality by 20% [3].

Moreover, a study conducted by the National Institutes of Health found that frequent red meat consumption was associated with high levels of a chemical called trimethylamine N-oxide (TMAO), which is linked to heart disease [4].

However, there is limited evidence on the specific effects of high red meat consumption on hemoglobin, red blood cells, and hematocrit. Hemoglobin, red blood cells, and hematocrit are primarily influenced by factors such as diet, exercise, and genetics [5]. It is possible that high red meat consumption may affect these factors, but more research is needed to determine the extent of the effect.

In conclusion, while there is limited information on the effects of high red meat consumption on hemoglobin, red blood cells, and hematocrit, there is evidence suggesting that high consumption of red meat may have negative effects on cardiovascular health and increase the risk of certain diseases. It is important to maintain a balanced diet that includes a variety of foods and to limit the intake of red meat to minimize potential health risks.

[1] "Cardiovascular health. Data has shown time and time again that red meat is linked with high cholesterol, and in turn, increases risk for cardiovascular disease such as heart attacks and strokes ..." URL: Is Red Meat Bad for You?

[2] "The study found that people who ate two servings per week of red meat or processed meat had a 3% to 7% higher risk (respectively) of cardiovascular disease, including heart attack and stroke, and a 3% higher risk of death from all causes. It found a 4% higher risk of cardiovascular disease for people who ate two servings per week of poultry ..." URL: New study shows that eating red meat, processed meat increases heart disease risk

[3] "An extra serving of processed red meat (such as bacon, hot dogs, sausage and salami) raised the risk by 20%. The researchers estimated that substituting 1 serving per day of other foods—like fish, poultry, nuts, legumes, low-fat dairy and whole grains—for red meat could lower the risk of mortality by 7% to 19%." URL: Risk in Red Meat?

[4] "When the subjects discontinued their red meat diet and moved to either a white meat or non-meat diet for another month, their TMAO levels decreased significantly. The exact mechanisms by which TMAO affects heart disease is complex. Prior research has shown TMAO enhances cholesterol deposits into cells of the artery wall." URL: Study links frequent red meat consumption to high levels of chemical associated with heart disease

[5] "This recommendation was based on epidemiological studies suggesting that small increases in the risk of several cancers may be associated with high consumption of red meat or processed meat. Although these risks are small, they could be important for public health because many people worldwide eat meat and meat consumption is increasing in low ..." URL: Cancer: Carcinogenicity of the consumption of red meat and processed meat

Red meat consumption has been linked to a potential increase in ferritin blood levels, which can lead to adverse health outcomes such as cardiovascular disease (CVD) [2][5]. Ferritin is a protein that stores iron, and its levels can serve as an indicator of iron overload in the body.

A study conducted on the EPIC-Heidelberg cohort found that red meat consumption was associated with increased plasma ferritin levels, which in turn was associated with an increased risk of CVD [2]. Similarly, another study suggested that the adverse cardiometabolic effects of red meat consumption could be mediated by increased iron load due to the heme iron found in red meat [5].
It is important to note that red meat contains important nutrients such as protein, vitamin B-12, and iron [3], and is an established source of dietary protein and essential nutrients such as iron, zinc, and vitamin B12 [4]. However, excessive consumption of red meat has been associated with an increased risk of CVD, which can be partly attributed to its effect on ferritin levels in the blood.
In conclusion, while red meat is a source of important nutrients, excessive consumption may lead to increased ferritin blood levels and an increased risk of CVD. It is recommended to limit red meat intake and to consume a balanced diet to promote overall health and well-being.



[1] "Data has shown time and time again that red meat is linked with high cholesterol, and in turn, increases risk for cardiovascular disease such as heart attacks and strokes. Consumption of less meat ..." URL: Is Red Meat Bad for You?

[2] "Design. We evaluated relations between red meat consumption, iron load (plasma ferritin), and risk of CVD in the prospective EPIC-Heidelberg Study using a case-cohort sample including a random subcohort (n = 2738) and incident cases of myocardial infarction (MI, n = 555), stroke (n = 513), and CVD mortality (n = 381).Following a 4-step mediation analysis, associations between red meat ..." URL: Red meat consumption and risk of cardiovascular diseases—is increased iron load a possible link?

[3] "Researchers say that red meat contains important nutrients, including protein, vitamin B-12, and iron. However, there is evidence to suggest that eating a lot of red meat can raise a persons ..." URL: Is red meat bad for you? Benefits, risks, research, and guidelines

[4] "Abstract. Red meat is long established as an important dietary source of protein and essential nutrients including iron, zinc and vitamin B12, yet recent reports that its consumption may increase the risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD) and colon cancer have led to a negative perception of the role of red meat in health." URL: Red meat consumption: an overview of the risks and benefits - PubMed

[5] "Background: High iron load and red meat consumption could increase the risk of cardiovascular diseases (CVDs). As red meat is the main source of heme iron, which is in turn a major determinant of increased iron load, adverse cardiometabolic effects of meat consumption could be mediated by increased iron load. Objective: The object of the study ..." URL: Red meat consumption and risk of cardiovascular diseases-is increased iron load a possible link? - PubMed

[5] ....

In summary, the present findings from the prospective EPIC-Heidelberg Study do not support the hypothesis of increased iron load constituting a mechanistic link between meat consumption and CVD risk. Elevated iron status, i.e., higher serum ferritin, was not only associated with higher red meat consumption, but also with older age, male sex, obesity, alcohol consumption, and basal inflammation, indicating that ferritin is an unspecific marker of greater CVD risk.

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As in any observational study, we cannot rule out that the observed significant association between red meat consumption and MI risk may have been affected by unmeasured confounding.

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And they are not making difference between cooking your red meat yourself or stuffing yourself with processed red meat (salami etc) full of unnatural chemicals.

Bottom line: observational studies prove nothing, just prop political agenda like "fat is bad for you but sugar is harmless" from 1960.

I can't wait for the "studies" that will claim that eating bugs, cockroaches, and worms is "linked" to better health.